Do you guys heat treat your trade points?

[Mesophilic]

I've been playing around with trade points made from thin stock high carbon blade steel.  I tried heat treating with the same methods I'd use for a knife.  Genetally heating just a little bit above non magnetic, and quenching in oil or brine.  Temper in a toaster oven.

I've been experiencing a lot of warping out of the quench.  If I grind bevels pre heat treat, I'm guaranteed warping.  If I just cut and shape, and do the grinding post heat treat I still get a great deal of warping.  Probably various reason for this, uneven heating is one as it's hard to deal with such little blades in the forge.  Could also be that they aren't entering the quench properly aligned for the same reason and cooling one side faster.

Anyway, I'm asking this question because, is it really necessary to heat treat points?  Am I over thinking/working a simple concept?

[artcher1]

I cut mine out of old circular saw blades that had a good carbon content. 

[mullet]

I know Art's blades are plenty strong enough. I stuck one in a persimmon tree at Twin Oaks 2 years ago and had to cut it out with a knife and it's still good as new.

[Hawkdancer]

Art, what do you cut them to shape with?  I don't have a metal cutting band saw, do have a hacksaw, and usually plenty of time!  Thanks,
Hawkdancer

[artcher1]

Hacksaw is all I ever used Hawkdancer. Kinda tough to saw out but well worth it. Only hacksaw blade that I found that would cut out the circular blades I bought at NAPA auto part store. Gotta ask for their white bi-metal blades, avoid the unpainted ones...…...Art

[artcher1]

A few examples of the heads I made.

[Hawkdancer]

Thanks!  Off to NAPA!
Hawkdancer

[artcher1]

Some of these circular saw you buy today have little to no carbon content. Especially those made in China. Heads are easy to cut out from them and the finished heads won't hold an edge. Old Fire-tooth blades I made my heads out of you can shoot through game and still shave with 'em...Art

[TimBo]

So those blades are consistent quality all the way through, i.e. not a different temper right on the edge?  And I am assuming you haven't needed to heat treat them, since you didn't mention it, and anyway that makes sense with the hacksaw...you probably aren't sawing fast enough to heat the metal up much!

[artcher1]

Blades have the same temper throughout Timbo. They're very time consuming to make but well worth it. I've made many trade points other the years, killed a lot of deer with them, as have many of my friends that's used them. The old saw blades had the perfect temper for a hunting head, and if you can find a hacksaw blade that won't bounce off them, then you have a wicked blade that'll hold a hair popping edge...……..Art

[TimBo]

I will have to give that a try.  The trade points I have made from old band saw blades don't sharpen well, for me at least.  Those look deadly!

[artcher1]

I much prefer the single bevel over the double bevel Timbo. Easier to sharpen, and IMO, penetrates better than a double bevel blade.
You do need to tanto point the single bevel blade using a double bevel design. Like this...……..
 

[Mesophilic]

The tanto point above is double beveled? But the rest is single bevel?  Hard for me to tell in the picture.

Regarding the tanto point, does it help increase penetration in soft tissue or is it to help if you hit bone?

[Deerhunter21]

I feel like the part thats hard for the arrow head to do is the initial penetration. then its just slicing with the sharp edge you gave it. the tanto point makes the initial penetration easier. if its all double beveled all the way across then there is no needle sharp tip so that what it does. it gives it a very sharp tip for initial penetration and then its easy from there.

the tanto point is double beveled and the rest is single beveled.

[Hawkdancer]

Very nice points, Art!  I hope mine turn out half that good!
Hawkdancer