Juniper Self bow

[Chuck.e.b]

Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

[Azmdted]

This one I really liked. Side with red line would be back. Natural reflex to it. Not sure if this would help or hurt with junipers tension problems.

This looks like it might be a good one, but is that a knot about half up the left side?  The bark looks fairly straight, but if it’s anything like alligator juniper it can have some big twist regardless of the bark, not to mention buried knots. On a positive note, the bend is excellent. My bow had one end with a natural reflex.  I used a steam box to bend the rest of the bow and it worked well, but the reflex at the tip that I steamed in pulled out after shooting it a while, as did the overall reflex.  But, the end with the natural reflex/recurve is still holding.  Sinew probably would have helped hold the reflex.

My juniper is different, but it took me about 20 trees to find a suitable piece.   I did find a tree or two that had a nice full trunk, but I didn’t have the heart to cut it down. At least until I have more experience with it and know that I will use it for all it has.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[Chuck.e.b]

Had to resize image so went back to original and no it’s just a small twig and bark peeling.

Good to know about the reflex. Yeah I feel the same way about the big one.

[WhistlingBadger]

Wow, Chuck, you sure have me thinking!   Good luck and keep us posted.  T

[willie]

chuck

a couple of things to keep in mind when selecting staves from a leaning tree.

the compression side of the tree, (the side facing the ground) is often different from the tension side,(the side facing the sky)

Generally, conifers make compressionwood on the ground side to enable the tree to deal with the lean induced stress. While hardwoods make tensionwood on the sky side to help with the same.

as you might imagine, having compressionwood on the belly might be a plus, but that is not easily accomplished as the back of the bow has to come from somewhwere in the middle of the stave.

having tension wood as the belly could be dissapointing, hence I would be inclined to avoid the tree you describe as having deflex on the back.

that being said I, must qualify my response by saying junipers are not like most conifirs in many ways, and my experience with them is none, so comments from anyone with specific juniper experience would be welcome.

I do know from experience that trees with compression wood or tension wood (known collectively as reaction wood), do not make good bows if the bows back comes from the side of the tree such that one edge of the back has reactionwood of one kind, and the other edge, the other kind. Hope that is not too confusing.

On thing you might want to try to do before cuttting a live leaning curved tree, is to examine a crossection of a similar juniper (perhaps by cutting a dead  one?)

the foregoing is also something you would want to consider about branch wood also. Since the NA bow makers are reported to have utilized branch wood for staves, understanding where the best compression quality wood come from might be worth some investigation. Although I know that you are not building a sinew  backed bow as the NA often did, having a good belly is  always to be desired, as it is where most flatbows reach their limit by taking set or othewise failing.

[Chuck.e.b]

Thanks for the info willie!

[Chuck.e.b]

Here’s what I ended up with for a stave. It has some prop twist, a bit of a c curve, and a knot here or there...classic mountain juniper..fun fun. I plan on making a steam tube here soon and building a form.

I’ve researched some about getting out prop twist, some used a plumbers wrench with a form.
What do you guys suggest?

[DC]

I use a large Cresent wrench with a piece of leather for protection. Pipe wrench's teeth were too aggressive for my liking. Now that you've tapered the limb some be aware that it isn't going to untwist evenly. The thinner tip will twist more. If you can do it in a few steps starting from the fades you can control how it untwists. Hope you followed that

[Chuck.e.b]

I use a large Cresent wrench with a piece of leather for protection. Pipe wrench's teeth were too aggressive for my liking. Now that you've tapered the limb some be aware that it isn't going to untwist evenly. The thinner tip will twist more. If you can do it in a few steps starting from the fades you can control how it untwists. Hope you followed that

Good call on the crescent wrench. What kind of form do you use to hold it? Wish I new about the tapering part, dang..I only did that because I read less wood will be easier to move.

 So it appears I could untwist only one limb to make it straight, starting at the middle of the fade on up. Are you staying multiple hearings and work my up the limb? Thanks

[Chuck.e.b]

Heatings* not hearings

[DC]

If I'm just taking twist out I grab the handle in the vice and put a support under the bow where the wrench goes. Put a bag around the part I want to heat and pour the steam to it.

[Chuck.e.b]

Built a setup for steam bending and straightened this thing out best I could. Before then after. I actually used a ratcheted strap and got the propeller twist to a manageable place with wrenches and weight.

[loefflerchuck]

I've long thought the combo of juniper and sinew can make the most efficient bow out there. I tested this at the flight shoot on the Bonneville salt flats this year. My 60" sinew backed rocky mt juniper sapwood bow holds 2 world records in the 70# primitive simple composite field now. 343 yards with a flight arrow and 264 yards with a broadhead arrow.  One of the best compression woods in the world but sucks in tension. If you live in a humid environment you can get away with a self bow. Here in Utah it is too dry to have a juniper self bow that lasts.

[NorthHeart]

I've long thought the combo of juniper and sinew can make the most efficient bow out there. I tested this at the flight shoot on the Bonneville salt flats this year. My 60" sinew backed rocky mt juniper sapwood bow holds 2 world records in the 70# primitive simple composite field now. 343 yards with a flight arrow and 264 yards with a broadhead arrow.  One of the best compression woods in the world but sucks in tension. If you live in a humid environment you can get away with a self bow. Here in Utah it is too dry to have a juniper self bow that lasts.

Chuck, regarding a sinew backed bow, whats your opinion of ratio of sapwood to heartwood, does it matter?  I have a few staves that taken down to bow dimensions are mostly sap...
 

[loefflerchuck]

Northheart- I've made all sapwood, all heartwood and various ratio mixes. As far as performance the all sapwood bows are best. Unlike yew, I have found the heartwood to be no faster or better in compression. The sapwood is a little lighter than heartwood. I think this is why it will shoot a little further. My favorite stave is the unbroken sapwood layer under the bark. For a hunting bow or everyday shooter I will say a heartwood belly of purple or brown adds beauty to the bow. Since juniper grows all around here I've gotten picky and almost only use perfect knot free staves now. I have used the Native stave removal method on large live trees and it works well. I cut a notch on the bottom and top of where I will remove the stave and come back a year or so later to extract it. Not sure if waiting a year makes it any easier. The bottom notch will not halt growth of the stave on the tree. It does not season on the tree. It still needs to be seasoned at home, but only takes a month around here. Less if it's all the way down to bow size.

Chuck(the other one)- Nice work with that stave. When juniper is green it can be steam shaped like clay. When it is seasoned it will crack when steaming in shape, but soaking the near bow size stave for just a couple days rehydrates it to steam shape again. It takes in water when soaked at least 3x faster than hard woods.