Elm sapling bow (bows)

[Aksel]

next bow is coming along, floor tillering, rasping and scraping the limbs flat and rounding of sharp edges.

[Aksel]

Bow has got a funny profile. Handle is sticking out front so the belly side of the grip is in line with the limbs. First pull, bit of scraping to even out the tiller a bit.

[Greg DeJanes]

 I want to make an ancient European bow with elm as it was the most used. I can find red elm on eBay but, was it used in ancient Europe ? Pacific yew is available but, was it used in Europe ? What is available material available to make an accurate example of an ancient European bow?
I would make a new post here but, we are on a European bow subject.

Thanks,
Greg

[Aksel]

Hi Greg, I have no experience working with red elm, but Yew was used for similar bows I am making. Make 1 of both 

from wikipedia on red elm: The species superficially resembles American elm U. americana, but is more closely related to the European wych elm U. glabra

[Greg DeJanes]

 Great response Askel !  Red it is 

Thanks,
Greg

[Greg DeJanes]

So sorry! Excuse spelling

Greg

[Springbuck]

  Greg, where do you live?  If in the US, I have seen elm growing in literally every single State I have visited.  That includes CA, OR, WA, UT, NV, CO, ID, MT, KS, NM, AZ, OK, TX, NC, SC, MN, WI, and OH.  IT's all along roads and in woods, vacant lots, ditches, riverbottoms, etc.

  The issue with red elm sold in board form is that sellers are often not that careful to identify species, so any elm with lots of darker heartwood might get sold as "red elm".  If you are buying a stave, maybe ask the guy first.

  The good news is that any elm will make a bow, though some species are really a lot better, even the worst is acceptable.

[Greg DeJanes]

  I live in K.C. Mo.. The stave's on ebay are not from boards. At my age I can't harvest stave's myself. I will find something eventually. I collected a truck load of Osage years ago but, I'm out now. Still, I prefer to use the same wood for the design I'm using as was used originally.

Thanks for the response,
Greg

[txdm]

Aksel, can you explain how you decide what side of a sapling will become the back vs. belly?

Also, is your axe a single- or double-bevel?

[PatM]

  I live in K.C. Mo.. The stave's on ebay are not from boards. At my age I can't harvest stave's myself. I will find something eventually. I collected a truck load of Osage years ago but, I'm out now. Still, I prefer to use the same wood for the design I'm using as was used originally.

Thanks for the response,
Greg

 Well unless those Vikings were here early and going home with staves then Red Elm and Pacific Yew were not making ancient European bows.

[Springbuck]

  True enough, Pat, if you need an exact match, I guess it's gotta be a European variety.

  Greg, that kind of brings up a good point.   I'm not suggesting you have to, but one of the things I like about working with 2-4" saplings is, if I see a good  one, I can harvest it with a Swiss Army knife if I have to, and pack it home in any old car.   

Aksel, I have wondered about that bit in the TBB for a while, too.   Baker made a few mistakes and suppositions in that early book, but not many, and I have been well served by following his advice.

 But, I don't particularly find the rectangle cross section to be best, and I don't find crowned staves to act like they have dead weight at the sides.  It seems that having enough BELLY width, and enough back strength to hold the back is what counts.   In the same book he suggests against using staves too crowned, but then suggests "trapping" limbs to shave weight.  They seem a lot the same to me.

[willie]

on red elm: The species superficially resembles American elm U. americana, but is more closely related to the European wych elm U. glabra

interesting comments on some of the American varieties here             http://www.millerpublishing.com/Naw/hw_glossary.html

[Aksel]

txdm ; the back of the bow is always the outside of the tree. In the bow im working on now a big knot poked out so I decided I make it the handle- thats why it looks backwards.

The axe is double bevel but it is so thin, like a knife so it's light and gives you great control.

Springbuck, yeah I know. Would like to have an updated TBB. Must say I am more successful making elm bows from small diameter trees than massive logs with flat backs, and they don't seem to shoot any worse, but I might be wrong.

[Greg DeJanes]

 PatM

Pretty funny! Red elm would seem to be as close as I can find readily available. I don't use Osage to make Northeastern native bows either. You may have something on that Viking bow in N. America though 

[Hawkdancer]

How do you tell "red elm" from the other varieties?  What we called American elm in St Louis has very large leaves, while "Chinese elm" had small leaves, and seemed to be resistant to Dutch elm disease.
Hawkdancer