Arrow making process - questions

[FilipT]

Usually I don't post on this part of forum but since I will start making my own arrows for a first time and have some confusions, I figured I will post that here among the experienced fletchers.
I have access to materials/parts, I have made spine tester and downloaded dynamic spine calculator but can't for some reason wrap myself around the idea in what order do I make arrows! TBB vol 3. offers info but I am not completely sure.

Is this what the process looks like? Please feel free to correct me. 

1. Do I use wooden shaft of desired length (for example 31") and put it on a spine tester to measure its static spine?

2. Is the next step putting arrow together and measuring its weight?

3. Inputting all the information in the dynamic spine calculator?

4. When I get dynamic spine am I finally ready to sort arrows suitable for my desired bow and those weaker/stronger put away for some other bows?

Tnx

[DC]

You can adjust the static spine by reducing the diameter but you probably knew that.
Another thing. The best way to test dynamic spine is by shooting the arrow.

[willie]

If you are making the arrows from a board or stave, I suggest just making your arrow with a thumb plane and reduce as needed until it flies right for you. you might use spine measurements to help duplicate more arrows. reduce the middle third to control spine, and reduce the outer thirds to match weight. you can easily play with various tapers.  (price a commercial barrelled shaft  )

a lot of what you read about "making" arrows could be better called "assembling" arrows from off the shelf components, where one has to make selections from different grades of parts. The dynamic calculator is a good example of this method as it actually list commonly available components.

[Tracker0721]

I do it a bit different. I plug in my desired demensions to the calculator, tip weight, length, material, 3 feathers, etc. and use that to figure out which arrow weight to match my bow. I use 3rivers dynamic spine calculator. You do bow and arrow all at once and get the 2 numbers. Than I go whittle some sticks that I cut from a fir board and Once its round I check spine. It seems the right ringed boards I usually pick are always in the 70-80s so I chuck the arrow into a drill and sand it with most the sanding in the center to drop spine. And I’ll do that till I’m within a couple pounds than use fine grit paper to get it spot on. But remember the calculator gets you close, do 3 arrows at first and then test and refine before doing a batch. And write down the info of which bow likes what! I weigh at the end and usually they’re all close enough. I have a chronic for velocity.

[FilipT]

Just to mention, I will be using beech dowels. They have really good grain and are straight. I was told that they would be suitable.

[TSA]

Willie make s a valid point, one might consider building arrows and assembling arrows may be two different things.

so a bunch of this stuff you will know already- but i will just fire away.
all wooden shafts are measured on 26" centers, so cutting your shaft will not affect the static spine- unless you go less than 26 of course
now shortening will affect the dynamic spine of course.

one can quite accurately affix weight values to most arrow components, so you can get quite close to an estimated arrow weight, before you even start.

this is how i build my arrows, granted i am using pre-made parallel shafting.
1.have an accurate draw weight on my bow for my draw length- i check that!
2.taking the draw weight, style of bow  and my draw length i refer to my chart for getting a starting point in static spine.
3.put one coat of sealer on, put a nock on and field point, and bareshaft them
4.once i have a static spine and arrow length tuned , i thengo ahead and build the arrows.
5.a good idea to group tune after building a few. (bareshaft, fletched field point and fletched broadhead) they should all be hitting the same spot.

some points to remember.

for the average to good shooter, out to 20 yards, it will be hard to tell 30 or 40 grains difference in mass between the shafts- there is still significant velocity at that stage, and the gravitational difference  is still minimal at that stage.

i believe that having the same foc  makes a more significant difference on point of impact than most things( spine excluded)- i did cover that in another post on here titled " interesting" http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,62862.0.html

remember when bareshafting, to have the arrows still showing slightly weak, as adding the fletching and cresting and crown will stiffen the dynamic spine.

now the better tuned your arrows are, the smaller fletch you can use, which changes the spine less, is affected by windage less, increases velocity, possibly less noisy, but it will be less forgiving of form errors.
its all a trade off

after building the arrows, i dont go back and weigh them, with the same components etc, thats not a big issue. but then again my average hunting distance is 5 to about 12 yards.

too me, spine is waaaaay more critical than mass. within 10 to 20 grains is just fine, i think. Unless of course i was shooting at an olympic level.

good luck, and dont forget the pics

[FilipT]

Thanks TSA, you managed to clarify some things.

Can you tell me how did you get static spine after the point no. 4.? You wrote that you "bareshaft" them and in the point 5. you mention that you got static spine and then you can build an arrow.
Also where does my spine tester fit in all this, I mean at which stage of process?

[TSA]

ok, sorry if it was a bit vague.
so i look at the charts, taking all the variables into account- decide on a static spine, then maybe choose a spine above and a spine below- but mainly focus on the one on the charts.
then i bare shaft.
after trimming and shooting them all, till i have one that flies as i want it, i use that static spine i started with- before i start, i clearly mark the static spines on the shaft in pen- so that figure doesnt disappear.

i know, this whole static spine, vs dynamic spine can be a bit confusing, in a way i wish the industry would have used a different word other than dynamic spine- it can be very confusing- was for me in the beginning.

this is my opinion. focus on the static spine, its a hard tangible number a person can work with.that never changes.
the flight performance of an arrow will change dependant on many factors, point weight, tail weight. length , taper, diameter etc etc.
kinda, dont see that as the spine, see that as how you can best manipulate the static spine to suit your bow. there is really no difinitive way to measure the dynamic spine of the arrow, we just know that we can manipulate the given spine of an arrow, to "BEHAVE" like a different spine, but the spine measured, on the spine tester stays the same.
for example if we take a 50# spine arrow, but increase the point weight from 125gr to 150gr the arrow should start behaving like a 45# arrow. the static spine is still #50 , as measured, but the behaviour has changed- crazy stuff innit it
hope that helps some

[TSA]

sorry, missed the second part of the question.
the spine tester is used after making the shafts, to ascertain the static spine- in fact its more commonly referred to just as spine, the whole "dynamic spine" thing confuses the issue here.

so build the  shafts, then measure the spine- wooden arrows are measured on posts 26" apart- irrespective of the finished arrow length, or your draw length. its just an industry standard.
 now you have a spine  value or number that you can refer back too when you want to build more arrows for that bow.

as was mentioned in other comments here. i would see what spine i needed according to the charts. start building one arrow, checking the spine continually- reducing diameter, until you have the spine you want to bareshaft with, leave the shaft long. Then bareshaft tune it and see how that works- if you need a stiffer or weaker arrow- build the next arrow accordingly, and bareshaft it. when you have one that flies well, now you know what spine you will need- then build the other shafts to that spine requirement.
for most woods- some better than others, you will finds that the wood around where you took the first shaft out of, will all produce similar spines.
ie same Rings per inch, same side of the tree, etc etc.
your spine tester just gives you a repeatable value- its a reference point. you would then tune the arrow to the bow, and the bow to the arrow to get the best flight that you can!

[FilipT]

I managed to learn a lot from your posts and now I must organize it all in step to step process. I will write it here and can you tell me have I got it correctly?

1. Put shafts on spine tester, measure their spine and write it.

2. Use the chart and select shafts that are more suitable for my bow and put ones that are not aside.

3. Put the point and make/put nocks on them, but not yet feathers.

4. Do the bareshaft test of these arrows.

5. After I am content with them, do a batch of them and put feathers.

In all this, can you link me a chart that you use? Do you use excel calculator for all this or just chart? And last, have I got anything wrong?

Thank you.

[bjrogg]

I build my arrows like Wayne. Except most of mine are built from shoot shafts. I think a spine tester is more helpful for this.  It's really not needed if you are building arrows from parallel shafts with already know spines. Like Wayne said the measured spine of a arrow stays the same but the dynamic spine is effected by many things. Length of arrow, point weight, the width of your handle at arrow pass. All of these things effect the dynamic spine or the way a arrow acts like it's spine is. I agree with Wayne spine and weight front of center are the two most important things in my opinion. I know bareshaft testing sounds complicated and it can be time consuming when your not even in the ball park but it is the only way I know of to test Dynamic spine. Bareshaft testing is another whole thread but there are many posts about it here already. I highly recommend at least trying to bareshaft a arrow. I shoot every arrow I make for a bow bareshaft. I know people have complained they broke arrows bareshaft testing. To me if you arrow is so far off that it broke hitting target so much sideways it wasn't ready for fletching anyway and it wasn't the right combination to build a dozen other arrows to that static spine, arrow length, head weight combination. It's a little hard to understand bareshaft test until you try it and see how arrow behaves. Just try shooting arrow without fletching from about six yards. If it flies sideways it's not properly Dynamic Spined to bow. Consistency in form draw and release are important but if you arrow flies sideways you've got bigger problems than form.
I say give bareshaft a try. When you figure out the combination that works for your bow you can repeat it by using spine tester to make another shaft to the same static weight as your properly tuned arrow and then make it the same length and head weight. Then shoot  it bareshaft and see if it flies straight.
I hope that's clear as mud now.
Good Luck for me bareshaft testing was a real eye opener
Bjrogg

[bjrogg]

Sorry I posted over top of you FilipT. I think you've got the order right. Not sure how familiar you are with bareshaft testing but you might want to read up on it and don't be afraid to ask questions about it. I would also suggest that you mark your arrows so you know which side you have against arrow pass. Don't want to go through all this and fletch arrow backwards.
Bjrogg

[BowEd]

When making shoot shafts I use a sizer also to match my shafts to get them in the ball park of each other.Besides a grain scale and a spiner.Usually shoot shafts like dogwood will be very close to each other in mass weight /spine and diameter.I can get  matched sets of dogwoods then.It's just holes drilled through flat antler of sizes from 9/32"/5/16"/11/32"/23/64"/and 3/8".
Also I've seen type of string can make a difference too.B50 string because of it's stretch usually requires a shaft 5#'s weaker than FF string because of it's stiffness.In short a self bow non center shot using FF string will need a shaft 5#'s stiffer than using B50 string.Sounds confusing but after making enough shafts it's easy to understand.

[TSA]

what type of bow do you shoot, and i can put a chart up here for you
 that list is pretty much how i do mine.
 but like all things in trad archery, there are a lot of ways to get the job done!
like ed says, there are so many variables which effect dynamic spine, string material, string diameter, string mass, silencers, serving, arrow tail weight, brace height, draw length, shaft diameter, arrow pass, point weight, arrow length, and many more too 

Brian is correct imo. bareshafting can be a stumbling block- but its actually quite simple- and once you understand the principle- its such a valuable tool!
here is the best video i have ever seen on the subject>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGOPiriLbcM

[mullet]

Thanks, Wayne for posting the link to the video. Very simple and minus all of the mumbo jumbo.