Pounding or soaking sinew

[loefflerchuck]

Mounter- You may be right about the bow surface but Willie- the glue and sinew form a more and more complex pattern of bonds over the course of months and even over a year. That is the reason I'd rather use shredded lofty sinew for highly stressed design.

I am however soaking some sinews to jump on this wet splitting fad. I've only used it for thicker handle wraps and such. Some California tribes used this method and who knows how many more. Pounding and shredding has just been the "way" to do it since the first how to book came out on backing bows in modern times.

[Taxus brevifolia]

There's a rat in separate

[PatM]

Mounter- You may be right about the bow surface but Willie- the glue and sinew form a more and more complex pattern of bonds over the course of months and even over a year. That is the reason I'd rather use shredded lofty sinew for highly stressed design.

I am however soaking some sinews to jump on this wet splitting fad. I've only used it for thicker handle wraps and such. Some California tribes used this method and who knows how many more. Pounding and shredding has just been the "way" to do it since the first how to book came out on backing bows in modern times.

  That is still up for debate as to how much increased complexity of bonds happens.  I believe I remember reading that the molecules need a certain amount of moisture content  to do their thing so long seasoning may have been a matter of moisture cycling allowing  this to happen even though dry periods likely made things inert for a while.

 I do think fluffy sinew isn't as strong as it could be due to the actual collagen being somewhat mutilated.

 Obviously it gets patched back together in the matrix but more intact unidirectional fibers is always beneficial in either this scenario or when making string.

[willie]

That is still up for debate as to how much increased complexity of bonds happens.  I believe I remember reading that the molecules need a certain amount of moisture content  to do their thing so long seasoning may have been a matter of moisture cycling allowing  this to happen even though dry periods likely made things inert for a while.

Mason quoting Ray...

"The bow-makers of both the Hupa and Klamath tribes," says Ray, "are specialists, and the trade is now confined to a very few old men. I have here seen no man under 40 years of age that could make a bow or an arrow, and only one old man who could make a stone arrow-head.

"To make a bow, the wood of a yew sapling 2 1/2 to 3 inches in diameter is selected and rough-hewn to shape, the heart side inward and the back carefully smoothed to the form of the back of the bow. The sinew is laid on while the wood is green and held in place until dry by means of a twine wrapping. In this condition it is hung in the sweat house until the wood is thoroughly seasoned,

Did these tribes make bows not only for their own use, but have an industry for exchange/ barter? ie, specialists?

The sinew was placed on green yew?

Does "sweat house" imply a slower or damper curing environment than not in the sweathouse? Steam heat? Isn't it quite damp already, west of the cascades in Humbolt county?

[PatM]

wilie, what's  your current preferred method?

[willie]

 No preference here, although I asked a similar question a while back with an eye towards the future prep. Seems reasonable to not dry it so hard if not necessary.
If pounded until fluffy works better for a particular application, then so be it.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,61584.msg860925.html#msg860925

[PatM]

I actually meant method of application and glue choice.  Probably should have been on the other thread.

[willie]

Mounter- You may be right about the bow surface but Willie- the glue and sinew form a more and more complex pattern of bonds over the course of months and even over a year. That is the reason I'd rather use shredded lofty sinew for highly stressed design.

I am however soaking some sinews to jump on this wet splitting fad. I've only used it for thicker handle wraps and such. Some California tribes used this method and who knows how many more. Pounding and shredding has just been the "way" to do it since the first how to book came out on backing bows in modern times.

Has anyone used  this newer method since this discussion from a few years back?
Or maybe tried it but went back to the older pounding it dry method?

[superdav95]

Mounter- You may be right about the bow surface but Willie- the glue and sinew form a more and more complex pattern of bonds over the course of months and even over a year. That is the reason I'd rather use shredded lofty sinew for highly stressed design.

I am however soaking some sinews to jump on this wet splitting fad. I've only used it for thicker handle wraps and such. Some California tribes used this method and who knows how many more. Pounding and shredding has just been the "way" to do it since the first how to book came out on backing bows in modern times.

Has anyone used  this newer method since this discussion from a few years back?
Or maybe tried it but went back to the older pounding it dry method?

Willie.  I don’t want to hijack orig post here but I have tried the wet sinew processes method or at least my version of it.  The negative for me was that I didn’t know the dry weight for each limb.  I guess it can still be measured wet and sorted out later to some degree but the actual dry weight is very important to me and having a better prediction of poundage increase and added mass.  Mass is a bigger deal then we sometimes account for.  With dry clean sinew that’s been pre combed brushed and separated into measured bundles it’s easier to predict how it will react and marry or fuse to the bow.  Mass is also known when working with dry.  The bow I did with wet processed worked out fine but I had to estimate the amount of sinew was added to the bow in the end.  So in the end for me the dry process is my preferred method for this reason.  I suspect that if wet method done often enough one would get a pretty good idea after some time to know how much mass is added when all said and done.  I’ve also tried to wet process sinew and dry it again after washed and combed.  This actually wasted more time for me.  I had to Re weight it all but it was hard to do as it dried very hard and virtually impossible to separate into fine hairs.  I think doing so would rupture and cause breakage if forced.  I ended up storing it dry for a different project down the road.  Anyway just my experience with the two methods of that helps.   

[bassman211]

My hands hurt bad now when I process dry sinew. Wet method here I come, and if it works for me I will never look back. Any thing to make the job easier.

[superdav95]

My hands hurt bad now when I process dry sinew. Wet method here I come, and if it works for me I will never look back. Any thing to make the job easier.

Bassman.  I too find it hard on the hands.  I like the steel dog brushes.  It helps to get it separated easier.  I put on in my vice too and use two hands to pull it through the stiff brush if that makes sense.  It helps on the labour intensive part of it a bit. 

[bassman211]

Dave 95 even the four pound beater part hurts . Being 75 years old doesn't  help either.