Questions and comments on the best sinew and hide glue.

[Aaron H]

Where did you score the yellow croaker bladders from Ed?

[willie]

Even the worst glue I have made holds sinew to wood. Only the best splices horn and holds sinew to a huge reflexed horn bow

could this be because the glue on a horn bow has to stretch more?

Perhaps different batches of glue could be pre-tested for their ability to stretch as far as required.

[Stick Bender]

Aaron I will let Ed answer but I just ordered a 1 lb. From Amazon about $70

[BowEd]

Yes Aaron...there abouts what Ritch said shipping and all.That price for a pound.12 large 5 to 6 inch circumference bladders.Erlin yellow croaker.

[Stick Bender]

It's $$ for glue but would imagine you could get a fair amount of bows out of a pound one of the smaller crock pots I have will maintain 135 F is the lowest I can get on temp .

[Aaron H]

Wow, one pound should yield a whole lotta glue!

[BowEd]

Ya I know it is a fair amount of bladders for glue.I really just plant to mix it in with the sinew glue some like 1 to 4 at first to see what that does then adjust accordingly.

[wizardgoat]

Good topic Chuck. I do like you, except I don't boil at the end and I cook for longer, over 24 hours.
I haven't had any issues, but I wouldn't say I've made any truly STRESSED bows.
I've heard of some composite bowyers starting with thin hide glue for sizing, then adding
some other types of glue for the actual gluing.
I've also ordered some yellow croaker bladders recently, they have not arrived yet, but I've been wanting to try it out for a while. Like beadman, I want to try it mixed with sinew glue, but I want to try it on its own too. Hit me up I'll send you a couple

[BowEd]

The 1 pound of croaker bladders might yield enough glue to do maybe 2 to 3 bows at the most if it's the only glue used from my findings here.That's why I will parcel it out into a mixture with high quality first pouring sinew glue of which I have more of to stretch it out.
Reasons for having a slower gelling glue around is for different application situations and degrees of strength.I have no way of proving bladder glue is stronger then sinew glue from my own use.Nor do I have proof of it being more moisture resistant either like I've read about it,but I will say this I've read those statements from many reputable horn bow makers making the same claim from their experiences.Again I usually take the common denominator info to come to my conclusions.
I've just made some croaker glue from 1/4 pound of dried bladders.It might yield around an 8 to 10 fluid ounce mixture for sinewing.That gives me a reference as to how much these bladders will yield.I reduced it the same way in a double boiler type system.Never letting the glue get above 130 to 140 degrees over a stretch of 6 to 8 hours.Making this glue can all depend on how much water you put in with your bladders or sinew for it to be thick enough to gel reasonably well.Too much water and you've got a longer evaporating time.Not going over 130 to 140 degrees is a safe guard not to weaken it with too much heat.Into the 170 range is too hot in my mind especially over a long period of 6 to 8 hours.
You see videos of hide glue quick like prepared boiled in an hour and a half,but no talk of where their going to use it.My guess is not on horn bows.It might suffice on a less stressed self bow/fletching and nock wrappings I'm sure.I'm not taking that chance.That's just me.
I won't make glue from sinew or bladders letting the heat get over 140 degrees.I'm sure there's experiences contrary to my findings but as for me I'll go with what I see doing myself.

[BowEd]

Chuck....This is actually your thread.Sorry it looks like I've taken over on it but the interest is there from me anyway.
I'm seeing this bladder glue take close to 2 hours to gel in the frig.Back out in the room temperature it un gels to a degree.I'm still air drying it to use.Fooling with it it really is a sticky glue.I've read a possibility that if the air bladders are force dried or oven baked it can degrade the glueing qualities from it too.Air drying them is the best.

[loefflerchuck]

Wow! Okay let me try to catch up. Thanks everybody for the help. Beadman, nice bow. Does not look like too big of a fix. I am lucky enough to get long elk leg tendons. Over 20" and can cover the entire bending limb.

 Mike, I may have to get some croaker bladders. When I worked on a fishing boat in the Northwest I spent a couple hours on the steam in cutting bladders out of rockfish. I think because of the water temp? the glue I made would not jell. I finally got it to dry after a few days but would not use it on a bow. I use it for natural paints over sinew.

Stickbender, I have never used bladder glue so I am used to quick jell time. I have not had a problem with it.

Willie, Wood and sinew bows are not really putting the sinew to work if your only drawing a 50" bow 26" or so.

Ryan, Thanks for the offer. Maybe next trade bundle we exchange. I've been pretty slow getting at that stash of ash. I only cut 10 arrow blanks and no cores yet.

Next batch I'll try the low temp. I have a entire shopping bag of sinew scraps.

One last question. Without posting a link can anybody give me a credible source for good bladder glue ready to go? I've seen some but when your bow takes 8 months to make I don't like to take chances.

[osage outlaw]

Chuck,
     I have some carp air bladders dried and chopped into tiny pieces.  I was going to make glue from it but I'll probably never get around to trying it.  I'd be more than happy to send them to you if you wanted to try them out. 

     I've made a few batches of sinew glue in a crock pot.  I let it cook overnight on low heat which is still pretty warm.  I use very clean sinew only and shred it into very fine fibers.  I don't get any fat on the surface.  After I'm done cooking it I strain it and there isn't much left of the sinew.  I've got a lot of scraps saved up and need to make some glue sometime soon.  I've never had a problem with my glue but my sinew backed bows are no where near as high stressed as yours are. 

[loefflerchuck]

Thanks Clint. Maybe we can make a trade once again.  I'm getting more useful information than I expected.

[osage outlaw]

No trade necessary Chuck.  I'll also send some of my dried sinew glue for you to test out.  I took a couple pictures of what I make my glue from.  I only save the clean white fibers.  If a piece looks greasy at all it gets cut off or thrown away.

[Stick Bender]

Just got home for the week end and my yellow croaker air bladders & clarified 192G hide glue arrived ,these air bladders are huge like pan cakes my package weighed 17 oz  looking foward to cooking up some air bladder glue like Ed , hey Ed did your dried glue peaces come out clear opaque color ?