hide tanning advice

[trail walker]

 So i walked out to check the critters yesterday and noticed one of our cows that was expecting a calf did not come in to eat. long story short i found her keeled over dead in a ditch . her calf survived and was hiding under a tree. The cow was a brown Swiss jersey cross ruffly 1800 pounds, her hide is a beautiful grey peach cooler and me and my dad want to brain tan the hide with the hair on.    as of right now we have the hide skinned off the cow and in a freezer(out side ) how would you guys proceed with a big hide like this? All my experience so far is with a small hide off a very small 2 point deer.
thanks,

trail walker

[Hawkdancer]

Trail Walker,
You will need to double check this info.  I have a cow hide in the freezer, but haven't been able to get the gumption up high enough to work on it.  If I remember correctly, you will need to stretch it, flesh it, and then salt it to set the hair, then work the brains in (you did keep the brains? Every critter has enough brains to tan his/her own hide)  then you will have to "stump" it to work the brains well into the hide.  I would suggest a hide tanning party to get enough help. Going at it full time, you should be able to get it done in a few days - it is a lot of work.  I would suggest a very large frame of 4x4's to stretch the hide, and use a sledge hammer for the stumping.  Of course, you will have to thaw it out to start working on it . And cook(boil) the brains outside away from the house.   When you get done,  I will be looking for some experienced brain tanner for my cow hide, I got bad shoulders .   Hope the calf makes it, it is a bummer to lose both.  Had that happen on my watch years ago.  Like I said double check my info.
Hawkdancer (Jerry Mc Connell)

[---GUTSHOT--->]

I'm no expert brain tanner at all matter a fact I'm working on dehairing all my deer hides right now for brain tanning. But what I do know is that salt does not set the hair it preserves the hide after fleshing if your going to dry store the hide. You need to pickle this hide to truly keep the hair on. I've spoke with Pappy about brain tanning and he told me you have to force the brains through the hide several times to get it tanned. My question is can the brains penatrate the hide with the hair on. Cow hair and hides are thick! Good luck I'm curious how it will turn out

[BowEd]

The experience I have with larger hides is that like said they are a lot of work.I've only done 2 buffalo hides brain tanning.Mostly all deer.Your 1800 pound animal would be thicker yet than the 30 square foot buffalo I've done.Really thick stuff like that I turn into rawhide and use it like that.A 2"X8" frame of clean pine will secure it without much bowing while it dries,with at least a 6' by 7' inside dimension.It would break a 2" by 4" frame drying down.You can try to brain tan it but I'm afraid it will be pretty stiff yet.If I was to try I would l  grind the brains into the hide with a smooth stone on the flesh side.This process will take days to do to get proper penetration.Another huge obstacle is roping it dry.It'll weigh a lot.I'm not saying it is'nt possible but it'll be a heck of a lot of work.If your a novice at it.It will overwhelm a person.
In the past really thick hides like that were made into parafleches/boxes/and even war shields.
I had a farmer here that wanted to have one of his cattle hides tanned.I sent him to a tannery I knew of in this state that did it for him for 10.00 a square foot.Very reasonable nowadays.It's in his house now on the floor.He had to wait 6 months.He's happy.

[Zuma]

I am all for saving a buck and doing hides myself.
Mostly small stuff with mixed results.
Like Beadman I may defer to a pro company on a hide like the cow.
Because it seems to have more meaning to you with the hair being
in tact etc. It would be a shame to do all the work and not have it
work out the way you want. But if you decide to tackle it---
You are in great company with the folks here that will give you
priceless help and advice.
Zuma

[Outbackbob48]

Trail walker, first off I have no experience with cowhides, I have done quite a few braintanned deer hides and have done a lot of reading on different hides and such, Domestic animals such as cattle ,horses and such have short type fibers and don't stretch as easily as wild animals , just about everyone I have ever talked to or read has said cattle hides are extremely hard to braintan and and most recommended bark tan for cattle, I know this is not what you wanted to hear but just my .02 worth. Either way let us know how it went and best of luck with your endeavor. Bob

[bjrogg]

Trail Walker sorry about your cow but I'm sure you know it's part of the game. I never tanned a cow hide but when I was younger we butchered a couple Holsteins that had calving problems. My brother and I scraped the hides power washed them both leather and hair side. If I remember right we just nailed and stretched the hide to our wooden wall in the barn. I don't remember if we even salted for sure but we probably did. They stayed nailed to the wall for many years even did a calf. They always looked kinda cool pinned to the wall like a coon hide. They had to be there for at least 10 years and the hair stayed in great, of course they were as stiff as a board and in the barn not thinking my wife would let me put it in the house.lol. I'd probably take Ed's advice and haul to a tannery. But if you have a wooden wall in a clean dry place it works pretty good for a stretcher for rawhide.
Bjrogg

[Hawkdancer]

Trail walker,
Might try looking online for info on brain tanning buffalo hides with the hair on.  The Native American women made mankind beau coup buffalo robes and rugs.   I think I will save my pennies and shoulders and find a commercial tanner to do my cow hide, but the hair is already off.  If the hide is fresh frozen, and not tainted, you can probably proceed, I only found one mention of pickling hides, using vinegar as the agent.  Couple gallons should be enough.  Good luck and let us know how it comes out
Hawkdancer

[tipi stuff]

A recommendation that I would suggest, after you have fleshed it, you need to thin it a lot. You almost need to get to the point where you can see hair follicles from the flesh side. Remember that you are only braining it from the flesh side, so you don't have brain penetration from the hair side at all. With bison, if you are doing a robe thinning is essential also, but the fiber qualities of bison and cattle are completely different. The cattle fiber structure is really tight, compared to bison. In fact, bison are much more likely to start pulling apart if you over work the hide. Almost all of the old-time tanning recipes from American Indian women list grease or bone marrow grease as an ingredient. Neetsfoot oil is bone marrow grease, just as Knox gelatin is hide glue. Those old women were mixing the bone marrow grease with the brains to make their tanning solutions. I will tell you, you have your work cut out for you.  Curtis

[BowEd]

The 2 buffalo I did were a lot of work and did come out soft and I still have them.Only measuring 30 square foot apiece.The fiber structure is different on cattle like said.Horses too.I've tried them.It is tighter.I had access to a rendering plant near me and knew the workers there so I'm speaking from hand on experience.There are all kinds of possibilities and projects yet using hair on rawhide if you are'nt completely set on having a tanned robe.
The only way to get a good stretch on that hide is to lace it into a sturdy 2"by8" frame.Like said inside dimensions 6'by7' and it will still fill that area to the hilt.1800 pound animal is big.That's bull buffalo size.Over 40 square foot.War shields were made from the forehead and shoulder plates on those guys.I steam heat shrunk some once to 1/2" thick dried rawhide.

[bjrogg]

Ed I love your wealth for knowledge about hides. I just kinda play around with them, you literally take the buffalo by the horns and tan his hide.lol. I've always loved hides they are a lot of very unglamorous work but just something that draws my senses to the smell, feel, texture and look of hides tanned or raw, fur or hair on or off. Always miss them when my fur collection is gone. Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Bjrogg

[BowEd]

bjrogg....Sorry to sound so stern and I'm sure there are others with a lot of experience too but it's a big big project trailwalker is contemplating but if done a lifetime achievement and keep sake for sure.Back in the 80's and 90's I used to tan pretty much year round with a wood stove heated basement in the farm house in the winter time.Personally anymore I won't brain tan hides bigger than elk at my age it's that demanding but there's something about brain tan and hide work in general that draws me to it.
I've found out and always said there must be 30 different ways to tan hides.Each person does which works for them.References from books and then trial and error to satisfaction.Definitely not an overnight master status thing with a little success in the beginning.Like a lot of things.A big hide from an 1800 pound animal will take good sharp tools to make it easier and still it will take a long time to do properly.To clean it up properly before putting it into a frame I would take it to a car wash.I took a walk through of a tannery here once.The tub soaking vats/tumbling drums/sanders/and drying racks were immense to save man power.Different types of tumblers for different purposes too.Too bad the business is too far away from me.I would love to work there during retirement.

[bjrogg]

Ed i understand the enormous amount of Very unglamorous work envolved in preparing and tanning hides. I guess that's a very big reason I've just air dried smaller fur barriers. I very much respect the work and experience you have with hides and thank you for sharing that information. I still have my buck hide in the freezer along with his brain and I'm trying to get the time and motivation to tackle this job. When I do I'll probably be asking you lots of questions.
Bjrogg

[BowEd]

I did a build-a-long called [big fella into buckskin/smoking/lots of pics under Beadman] in the primitive skills thread.Think it's at page 5 by now.Mind you it's just my way but a tried and true common method.

[Pappy]

Ya I get ask all the time , people wanting to brain tan a deer hide, I love showing people but most of the time by the time they get done with 1 , that's it. Lots of work and working out side as I do you have to work on the hide and weathers schedules not yours, some just can't understand that. I have done a couple of Cow Elk hides and that is big enough for me. A cow I wouldn't want to attempt especially brain tanning with the hair on. Good luck with you project trail walker. BJ I have done the same thing with deer hides years ago and they lasted very good, only problem is if they aren't in a controlled environment they will come and go with moisture as any raw hide will, and that is what you really have is hair on rawhide. Salting them makes that even worse . Pappy