Tillering and Set?

[gfugal]

Do you guys normally get a lot of set when you tiller? I find myself doing a lot of tillering with the bow still strung, cause I find it bothersome 1) string a bow, 2) take it to the tillering tree and observe its shape, 3) unstring it, 4) and then rasp just a little bit before doing it all over again. For convienience I just barely started leaving the bow strung to take out some steps. Will doing this cause more set than normal? Also if a bow gets some set Is that a sign the bow is being over-worked, or will that happen for a piece of wood no matter what? Can set get worse or is it just something that happens once it's drawn back at a certain length?

[bow101]

I dont know, if I tiller to 28" and pull beyond 29" and it breaks,  its firewood.  String follow may happen later in the game.  If your draw is 27" tiller it out to 28 plus....
My best bows have over 1" of set. They shoot very well.

As others have said here Floor tiller............and floor tiller.....and floor tiller...

[DC]

I tiller with the string on(I'm lazy too ). I get a bit of set but nothing excessive, maybe an inch on a bow that I haven't steamed. If I steam out some deflex or add a little reflex sometimes that will pull out a bit. I don't count that as set

[Badger]

    I tiller with the string on also, 1" of set is fantastic.

[aaron]

Set happens in almost all bows, and there are ways to keep it at a minimum.
Tillering with the string on does not necessarily induce set, as long as you obey the cardinal rule of low-set tillering: Never pull the bow past it's intended draw weight.
If a bow starts taking set it is likely being overworked- that is, it's being pulled past it's draw weight , it has a hinge, it's too wet or it's not wide enough.
Set can get worse if a bow is worked to longer draw lengths with any of the above listed issues.
To minimize set- use dry enough wood, make wide enough bows, avoid hinges throughout the process and never pull the bow past it's intended draw weight. Also minimize hold time during tillering- don't stare at it for a minute at full draw- just take a picture or learn to judge quickly.

[George Tsoukalas]

I usually get about 2 in of set. I do long string tiller. I also don't pull to target weight until 5 or so  inches below my draw length.
More on my site.
http://traditionalarchery101.com/
Jawge

[SLIMBOB]

I think you bring up several related, but different questions.  Set in a wood bow is unavoidable.  Keeping it to a minimum and not letting one area get over worked causing a hinge is ideal for me.  The less set the better as that indicates the design is correct.  You can carry that to the absurd and eliminate ALL set by over building the bow.  The returns are diminishing as the additional mass impedes the performance.  So, the key for me is no early set, first.  Floor tiller well and get the limbs bending equally with one another and bending in the ark I'm wanting right from the start.  It's key for me.  That accomplished, I tiller with the string on.  It helps me keep the limbs in sinc.  Then it is just a matter of working slowly.  Pull a few inches and check it.  Fix it, now check it again at that distance.  Once it is right, pull a bit further and check it.  Repeat in small measures all the way to the finish line.  Set will be minimal if I did everything right including the design using a healthy stave.

[willie]

My tillering skills improved when I realized that most tillering needs to happen before bringing to a high brace.

As a beginner, I wanted to get 'er strung too soon, which for me, caused damage and avoidable set.

As others say above, floor tillering is one alternative, but I found it hard to know beforehand what constituted good floor tillering, as I was still learning. Long string at reduced weight, as George mentioned, is another alternative.

My goal on more recent bows, has been to almost finish the tillering before stringing, so taking the string on and off for the final adjustments is not much of a concern.

[upstatenybowyer]

Set happens in almost all bows, and there are ways to keep it at a minimum.
Tillering with the string on does not necessarily induce set, as long as you obey the cardinal rule of low-set tillering: Never pull the bow past it's intended draw weight.
If a bow starts taking set it is likely being overworked- that is, it's being pulled past it's draw weight , it has a hinge, it's too wet or it's not wide enough.
Set can get worse if a bow is worked to longer draw lengths with any of the above listed issues.
To minimize set- use dry enough wood, make wide enough bows, avoid hinges throughout the process and never pull the bow past it's intended draw weight. Also minimize hold time during tillering- don't stare at it for a minute at full draw- just take a picture or learn to judge quickly.

I think this pretty much says it all. My only addition would be (this does pertain to set directly) don't forget to exercise the limb after removing wood. The changes you've made to the tiller don't always show until you've pulled on the string 15-20 times. Careful not to pull too far though.

And don't forget heat treating. When I reach my desired draw length and weight there will almost always be some set, but if I'm working with a wood that takes heat treating well I can often eliminate a lot of it with Marc S.L.'s method.

[SLIMBOB]

I don't think stringing too early is the problem.  I string mine to low brace as soon as I can muscle a string on it.  It does need to be floor tillered well before hand so that the limbs are close.  The problem comes in rushing the unfinished product to full draw too early.  Take a look at some of the pics from the new guys first few posts on PA.  Therein lies the problem. 

[willie]

Could well be, Slim. I guess I do a low brace once the tips are coming back  6", with 1/2 the design draw weight on a tight "longstring". Rushing tiller will sure teach a guy patience though, I agree.

[SLIMBOB]

I think PEARL mentioned this very thing some years back and I agree with him....If you string one up way heavy, (assuming the floor tiller is just somewhat close) lots of belly wood ends up on the floor.  But if you push one too far, too fast, that's where you end up with problems.

[mikekeswick]

The more bows you make the less you have to stress them to see what is going on AND more importantly you get better at seeing where you need to go with them.
Practise makes perfect

[BowEd]

Good sound advice from all of these fellas.I still have the very first self bow that I made.
It's good to look back at how things can change and improve after dozens or hundreds of bows later.
Reading in between all the lines of advice the word slowly will help the most.

[George Tsoukalas]

i think experienced bowyers develop a feel for when a stave is ready to be strung.
In my younger days, I broke several before I came up with a method.
I use the long string to determine when the stave  is ready.
You can read about it here.
http://traditionalarchery101.com/boardbowbuildalong.html
Jawge