Question on bow nocks

[Ruddy Darter]

I know this is probably an old question but I can't seem to find the answer on search concerning bow nock size. (130-140 draw weight sort of margin, I wondered if there was an ideal,  and say with 5mm sapwood)
How large should the drilled hole be width at neck and depth?
I aim to grind down a drill hole bit (thanks Del's blog) and waiting to hear on some horn.
At the moment I have a couple of pairs of predrilled buffalo nocks and are 13mm at the mouth and 40mm deep,  would these be o.k to use? For future reference really,  I'm a long way off needing to use any at present.
Thanks for any help,

 R.D.

[WillS]

Sidenocks, sidenocks, sidenocks, sidenocks, sidenocks!!

If you're gonna make a medieval bow, do it properly!

12mm at the opening, and I usually drill them about 1.5" deep, and use 2" long horn tips.

[Ruddy Darter]

.. Who's there?... Sounded like the start of a  knock knock joke with a new angle  ... Ohhhhh.k...i might give them a go... No promise mind.  ,

 R.D.

[WillS]

You bloody better promise young man!  Too many people ignoring them these days, for no reason.  It's not a medieval bow if it's got Victorian nocks on.  Humph.

Rant over.   

[Ruddy Darter]

I was thinking about just having simple overlays... 
 
If I can't get cow horn tips I might get white buffalo tips which I really like the look of,  I know cow horn is stronger but the ones on ebay don't show the base and can't see if they have any separation/delamination going on,  would there be strength issues using buffalo horn for side nocks? (Hope that's not a silly question but I thought I'd ask.) 

[WillS]

If you make them right you should be fine.  What a lot of people do is make basic Victorian (front-groove) nocks, and simply turn them sideways, and use them with a normal sized string loop and they look bizarre and can also fail.  The string groove needs to be shaped quite carefully (and is very different to the Victorian style) and the string loop needs be really tiny.  If both of those elements are ok, then it doesn't matter what horn you use.

With large loops that hang down from the nock, buffalo horn has a tendency to split, whereas cow horn doesn't. 

Here's a quick rough sketch of how the groove should be made (if you use a knife it happens almost automatically, whereas if you use a tile saw or something you have to really work at getting that shape right)



And here's a nock made in buffalo by a friend of mine entirely by knife, which is (almost) identical to the MR nock and should show you the sort of thing I'm waffling on about.



I'm probably making it sound more complicated than it is.  Give it a try on some scrap horn and see how it turns out. 


.....or use front nocks like the Victorians did... 

[FilipT]

Can that be made with draw knife?

Reason why people don't usually make them as there are no specific instructions and dimensions for that type of nock. Only guys who use them are seasoned bowyers who make warbows and probably see them in person on historical artifact bows, such as MR bows.

Can they be made on wood, instead of horn?

[WillS]

There's no specific instructions or dimensions for Victorian nocks either.  I think the reason people don't make them is because they don't trust them.  You can make huge ugly Victorian nocks, or really dodgy little ones and they'll all still work.  If you get sidenocks wrong, they won't work.  I think a lot of bowyers give them a try, decide they don't like them and then continue making "warbows" with the wrong type of nock because they're used to them.

Don't forget that every single European bow found before the Victorian period had sidenocks, not just the MR bows.  Whether they were in horn or just into the bare wood, they ALL had sidenocks.  Even during and past the Victorian period lots of bows had them.  No matter how big or small or fancy or plain you make them, if you cut the nock into the front of the horn, you're doing something fundamentally modern.

You can make them out of anything you want.

[Strichev]

By sidenocks you mean a single groove variety or the more common (nowadays) double side groove design? I'm getting a bit confused by terminology here.

[WillS]

You've either got sidenocks (a single small groove on one side of the bow tip) or a "modern/Victorian nock" which is the entire face of the nock cut into a long groove going from side to side like a big smile.

[Del the cat]

... every single European bow found before the Victorian period had sidenocks, not just the MR bows.  ...

Errrr. Meare heath bow, Holmgaard bow, Otzi's bow etc don't have side nocks.
Del

[WillS]

Errrrrr which Holmgaard bow?  I wasn't aware there was only one 

I think you'll find they had tied on nocks, as with Otzis bow and the MR elm bow probably.  Somewhat irrelevant to this discussion unless you're desperate to pick holes. 

You can have the Meare Heath bow if it makes you feel better

[Ruddy Darter]

Well I picked up a cheap and cheerful bench grinder from screwfix and got two flat wood drill bits...a 16mm & 15mm so all set for grinding them down,  I haven't got a Pillar press drill stand for drilling the horn.. hope it's not too tricky free hand with a power drill..(although I see some cheapies for £12 or so quid on Amazon  if recommended as essential)  .   , 


 R.D.

[WillS]

I just hold the horn in my left hand and drill in the right.  Means you can shift things slightly if it starts going off target.

Use Dave Pim's tutorial on the EWBS main site to get the right piked shape of the drill bit.

[Ruddy Darter]

Thanks WillS,   yeah...been having a nose there,  Dave makes some nice nocks for sure (and bows),  I think I'll start off in a vice though first one... I get nervous 'bout me paws,   ,  grinding shouldn't be too difficult...not that I've used one before so slow and steady till I get used to it.  Quite impressed with the bench grinder,  tidy little packet for £20.

 R.D.