adding some zip to my selfbow

[tankerjohn]

Hello primitive archers!  I new here, but this seemed like the best place to ask a question about improving bow performance.  I have a 77" tall hazel selfbow I've been shooting for about six months.  Its supposed to be 40#, but it doesn't feel like its pulling that much to me although I haven't measured it on a scale.  The performance of the bow seems extremely slow, even for a selfbow.  With a 29" arrow and shooting three-under, my point on is barely 20 yards.  Switching to split finger bumps the point on to 30 yards, but still with a slow, high arch.  I realize that a selfbow is never going to be a speed demon or even match my old glass-backed Bear, but it needs some spicing up.  I should add that I didn't make the bow and don't have any practical experience with tillering.  I've watched a few youtube videos on bow making and that's about it. 

Anyway, I'm thinking of doing one or more of the following to juice it a bit:

- change out the string to a fast flight with padded loops (the current string is very stretchy and I'm sure changing it would be a big help)
- toasting the belly with a heat gun
- moving the string nocks in an inch or so to decrease the length of the bow 

So my question for y'all who actually make bows and know what you're doing, what are the pitfalls associated with doing any of the above and would toasting the belly and/or cutting in new string nocks screw up the tiller? 

BTW, I haven't yet talked to the bowyer who made the bow and I'm not sure if I should.  I don't want it come across like "your bow sucks" and shipping it back to him to work on would be prohibitively expensive anyway.

[Pat B]

A 77", 40# bow does suck!  First it is way too long. Your bow is having to carry a lot of physical weight at that length and low draw weight. At this point the string material doesn't matter.
Will you post pics of your bow; braced, unbraced and full draw if possible. It is hard to make a judgement without a pic of the bow.

[SLIMBOB]

If it were my bow, I would consider all of those things.  The string is a good start with no down side, and will help a bit.  The other 2, tempering and piking (shortening) the bow bring with them some risks.  The primary risk is totally ruining the bow.  I would accept that as I have a room full of bows.  Trashing an under performer in hopes of improving it....I have done.  I don't have any experience with Hazel but I know others have heat tempered it, and my guess is, it would firm it up to some degree.  You again run the risk of doing something wrong since you have no experience, but it's pretty simple and you can be walked thru it here.  Piking the bow, ditto.  77 inches is long, really long, so losing a few inches should be doable as long as your draw length is not 32 inches.  Again, folks can walk you thru it, just be prepared for the result to be less than you have now.  If that is acceptable, get 'er done.

I just read Pat B's answer, and just to clarify, we are in agreement.  The string wont make a big difference, but it wont hurt anything either. 

[bushboy]

Yes,pictures would surely help.

[tankerjohn]

Thanks guys.  Here's a few happy snaps.  To be fair to the bowyer, he gave me basically what I asked for.  I wanted an English longbow, but can't afford yew.  I thought that one of the other woods commonly used in the middle ages would be more "authentic" than a laminated bow.  I'm learning that its not really that simple. 

[tankerjohn]

sorry for the sideways pictures.  I can't seem to fix it.

[SLIMBOB]

Here you go.

[tankerjohn]

Thanks!  How'd you do that?  More important, what do you think of the bow?  Is it hopeless?

[SLIMBOB]

I have Gimp which is a picture editor.  Makes it easy to to get these pictures right.  Free download.

Looks like the bottom limb may have a bit of a kink in it just outside the handle.  Am I right, and did it develop over time or was it that way from the get go?

[Tree_Ninja]

Looks like a few of the bows Ive made from maple. Bottom limbs looks weak.

 I would just start from scratch and use it as a baseline example. I never follow my own advice.

Doesn't look hopeless, just might be a bunch of work, and might end up with set or crysals.

[bushboy]

The bow does not look very stressed.i think it could be spruced up easily,just depends what style your willing to do?what draw weight you want and if your willing to break from the elb design

[tankerjohn]

Wow, thanks for all the feedback!

@slimbob - I'll have to check out Gimp.  Thanks.  I believe that the lower limb has always had that kink, but I haven't been paying close attention. 
@tree ninja - starting over isn't really an option right now.  I just want to make this thing shoot as well as it can. 
@bushboy - glad to hear you think it can spruced up.  What do you recommend?  I've given up on arbitrary adherence to "elb" design.  Its hard to tell from the pics, but it doesn't have an elb profile anyway, the back is rounded and the belly is flat.  For draw weight, I was hoping for 40#, but could go up to 50# and shoot it pretty comfortably. 

[SLIMBOB]

My guess is you will get all kinds of advice, and who knows which is best.  You have to make the call.  I would, if it were mine, I would try and fix it as I have no use for a 77 inch 40 lb bow without any zip to it.  Again, if it were to break or breakdown on me, I've got others so no big woop (whup, whoop, wup??).  If the bottom limb has been getting weaker over time, and that is not unusual, then it may just keep getting worse no matter what you do short of radical surgery.  I would....

1.  Pike it.  Make it shorter.  Maybe 74 inches nock to nock.  (ask for suggestions on length as that is just my thoughts on it).
2.  Heat temper taking the kink out.
3.  Retiller and see what I got.

Your going to be increasing the stress on this bow at a shorter length.  Tempering will add to that as well.  It will pick up some weight, it just may not keep all or any of it.

[tankerjohn]

Thanks SLIMBOB - you rock!  A couple questions:
1. When piking, if I take an inch and a half off each tip, should I taper the tips like they are now, or leave them thicker?
2. When you say heat tempering to take the kink out, do you mean heating just the lower limb?
3. Tillering scares me a bit because I don't have a tree and have never done it before.  I guess this is as good a project as any to learn.  I've heard of people making cheap tillering trees from Home Depot wood.  Is that a viable course of action for a new guy?  Do you have a preference for a rasp or drawknife for scraping the wood?

I don't mind doing my own research, but if you had any links handy to useful websites, forum threads, youtube videos, etc, that would be extremely helpful.

[SLIMBOB]

I saw a movie one time where a guy who had never flown a plane before was able to land a jumbo jet by following the instructions from the dude in the control tower.  Turns out the guy in the control tower was a total nut case.  Off his bonkers.  But they did get the plane down and he won the pretty girl in the end.  Funniest dang show I ever saw.  But, back on point...
1.  Taper the width.  Shouldn't take much.
2.  Take a heat gun and toast the belly only of the bow.  I would put it on some type of makeshift form to get a straight profile when finished.  (So take it a bit past dead level.  It will hold that shape once it has cooled).
3.  Bubby said "There is no room for fear in bow making".  A tree is helpful, but you can get by without one.  Knife, straight edge and a sanding block.

If you decide to do this, specifics can follow.  You will find out that the funnest part is making them.