Author Topic: Autopilot Cars  (Read 10757 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Marc St Louis

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 7,877
  • Keep it flexible
    • Marc's Bows and Arrows
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #30 on: July 07, 2016, 08:27:16 am »
It would seem that this subject is a bit contentious. 

The AI may not get drunk but maybe the guy programing this AI was drunk at the time  :).

Airplanes may have autopilot but they sure don't have to contend with the insanity we quite often have on the roads.  I'm quite sure when things get sticky up there the autopilot come off.

From what I can see there are just too many variables in trying to control a vehicle with a computer.
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

Marc@Ironwoodbowyer.com

Offline caveman2533

  • Member
  • Posts: 640
  • Steve Nissly
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #31 on: July 07, 2016, 08:41:44 am »
The auto pilot thing will be a rocky road until it is the majority of vehicles. I fully believe in 20 years there will be no,(except maybe a classic) ownership of cars, when you need one you simply order it and it will show up, take you where you want to be, you can work on the way there, or sleep, or whatever never touching the wheel. The auto insurance industry will be devastated, there will be very few accidents. Technology is increasing at a rate we can't fathom. I think not just the auto industry but the entire world as we know it will be different. Most jobs will disappear, being replaced by robots.  Maybe that 90% population reduction we have been hearing about will happen then too.

Offline PEARL DRUMS

  • Member
  • Posts: 14,079
  • }}}--CK-->
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2016, 09:54:10 am »
And we wonder why north of the Arctic Circle is getting crowded.............If I were single I would take what I own and have saved and leave tomorrow.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline bubbles

  • Member
  • Posts: 932
  • PM110769
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2016, 10:04:41 am »
I can't wait for self driving cars. Everybody on this site is Cleary an amazing driver :)   But most of society is not.  I firmly believe that driver education and training  is a joke in canada.    In Toronto we have to deal with 8 lanes each way of of parking lot traffic. A few drops of rain or snow and traffic is at a standstill.  I believe once the technology is perfected it will be a huge improvement.   I'm sure driving skill will still be required for dirt roads, parking lots etc.   But I for one can't wait.

Offline Urufu_Shinjiro

  • Member
  • Posts: 709
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2016, 10:16:22 am »
Gundoc, point well taken, that was just an example, I don't actually drive in that state but there have been a few late night trips back from the inlaws or what have you that I would have preferred to sleep on the way home rather than sleep at a rest stop, lol.

I think a lot of the distrust of the self driving cars comes from a lack of knowledge as to how they work. We need to completely ignore the Tesla as it's not a true self driving car and I suspect they'll get in more trouble over naming it Autopilot and setting false expectations than the implementation itself. The Google car is what we need to focus on, a full array of sensors that see road conditions in a way no human ever could, multiple redundant systems, etc. The Google car has self driven over 1.5 million miles in real world conditions and only 12 minor collisions only one of which was the self driving cars fault, the others were either someone else rear ending the car or the Google car was being driven by a person at the time, lol. I know that's a small sample size but even in development testing the self driving car has caused less accidents than the human behind the wheel. The one time it was the Google cars fault what happened is the Google car failed to account for the erratic nature of L.A. buses, lol, the lane the car was in reached some construction and needed to veer a little into the next lane to avoid some sandbags, the google car stopped and waited for an appropriate gap and then slowly pulled out to go around some sandbags failing to realize that an L.A. bus will not slow or stop for anything and the bus clipped the nose of the google car. Google has since corrected this, and it's certainly worth noting that hundreds of human drivers make that same kind of mistake every single day, day in and day out, the Google car made that mistake once and will never make it again. The transition will also not likely be as sketchy as some think because the NTSB has already called for all new vehicles to have connected vehicle technology so that all vehicles in proximity to each other will communicate basic info like speed, wheel position, throttle/brake position etc. to the vehicles around them so vehicles with driver assists like the emergency braking coming in a lot of cars now or the self driving cars will be in communication with non-self driving cars so the instant someone tries to turn the wheel to make that unexpected turn at the intersection or change lanes on the highway, all the cars around it are aware of it before any human could possibly even notice the movement let alone the reaction time delay, the decision making after evaluating the surroundings, and then the time to make an evasive action, in the time it takes for a human to do all this (and each human in the vicinity doing it differently) all the cars with assists or self driving would have all agreed on the correct course of action for every car there and be implementing it already.

As someone with a love for doing things the old way I certainly understand the concern for loss of skills etc., but there's a fine line between saying no one knows how to change their own oil anymore and saying something ridiculous like we should never have invented anti-lock brakes because no one knows how to pump the brakes anymore, you see what I mean?

Offline bubbles

  • Member
  • Posts: 932
  • PM110769
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2016, 11:45:13 am »
The hive mind type stuff they could program into these vehicles will be amazing once perfected.  Cars behaving like a flock of birds or schools of fish, instead of a bunch or turtles bumping into each other because of a lane reduction. 

Offline Urufu_Shinjiro

  • Member
  • Posts: 709
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2016, 12:00:03 pm »
Exactly, that whole thing where you go 5mph and then eventually you reach the front only to find out there is nothing whatsoever holding up traffic, that stuff is entirely human driven, maybe an hour ago someone swerved and everyone slowed down but since then it's just been a five mile stretch of folks slowing down for no reason and then speeding back up when they get to the front, lol.

Offline BowEd

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,390
  • BowEd
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2016, 02:10:01 pm »
Many opinions and my viewpoint is that the way things are going there are things or services out there that want you to depend on them by doing the work for you.It goes against my independent nature,well being and security that I need to depend on anything in this nature talked about here for my well being or livelyhood.I'll fend for myself period.I'm used to paying the consequences for my mistakes.Being accountable.Makes a person a bit more wise in life down the road.Seems like everyone wants to point the finger of blame at someone or something for their mistakes.
In the end it's all about the money honey.They want us to depend on them after we've lost our skills.Speaking in a general way here.
Right now if all computers were taken away it would'nt bother me in the least.I know I can't speak for some who's livelyhood depends on it but mine never did in the first place.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline Marc St Louis

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 7,877
  • Keep it flexible
    • Marc's Bows and Arrows
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2016, 02:33:04 pm »
This makes me think of a conversation my wife and I had with a Mennonite couple a few years ago about farm equipment.  They were saying how glad they were that one of the tractor manufacturers were going to start making them without all the electronic gadgets so that when they broke down in the field they would be repairable by the average person

Good god it's hard to write on these portable devices
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

Marc@Ironwoodbowyer.com

Offline BowEd

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,390
  • BowEd
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2016, 04:17:50 pm »
Well Marc it actually is amazing how the Amish here are able to repair modern things for people.Engines and equipment etc.Especially for those that have neither the gumption or know how how to do it.Time can be a factor too but really they'd rather throw money at the problem to get it fixed.No problem solving skills again.Everyone is guilty in one way or another of this attitude.Including me.I know a few Amish families well here.The Amish laugh at the English for being rather stupid and inept.The elders really don't think they are missing out on anything in the modern world.Now the young are curious of course.
Actually they've owned the first self driven vehicles long long before these companies did.Did'nt cost them half a fortune to own either.Their horses are so accustomed to getting around and back home that you really don't need to steer them.They will pull right up to the ring halter and stand there and wait.Just a joking example of course but still sometimes I really have to look hard to see if we are improving ourselves any or not.Really I think it's the big companies improving themselves is all that's going on.Trying to make a monopoly of things.That's my conspirocy  theory.......lol.
I one finger type and it's not so hard.....lol.The dangers of sitting in a chair at a table typing keep many a chiropractor rich.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

JacksonCash

  • Guest
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2016, 09:57:38 am »
.Really I think it's the big companies improving themselves is all that's going on.Trying to make a monopoly of things.That's my conspirocy  theory.......lol.
Not to derail this again but (Derail immenent) I really think there's something to be said for a healthy does of paranoia. Look at how many things are becoming services now- you don't own music, you pay for access to it. Same with movies. Why get someone to pay for something once, when you can make them pay for it again and again! Just imagine not being able to drive your car, because the server its trying to connect to shut down due to a bankruptcy or something. IDK- i've been in a paranoid mindset lately.

Offline BowEd

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,390
  • BowEd
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2016, 11:18:48 am »
Yes in the large picture of things I feel this way.Not paranoia either.All kinds of pitfalls and problems connected to this auto pilot car thing.A perfect world will not happen.I surely don't have a chrystal ball though either.Everyone can live the way they want to far as I'm concerned.I'm cheap.Convenience and services with a charge have a price and it's up to the person whether he or she wants to pay it which connects my train of thought to these auto pilot cars and the strangle hold for service the big companies will have on it.
Maybe I'm just too old and independent I guess but I don't feel comfortable letting a vehicle get me through the jungle of a city to get me from point A to point B anyway.Been looking out for myself too long to trust someone or something else to do it for me.That goes for all these other services too.Less is more in my case.Self fulfillment [do it yourself]as in making these bows for instance is worth a lot to me.There are things out there out of a person's control but this auto pilot car thing is not one of them for me.At least in my lifetime.The music I listen to is free.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline bjrogg

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,016
  • Cedar Pond
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2016, 12:44:08 pm »
I remember when they started talking about auto steer for tractors. I couldn't imagine that a tractor could steer better than me or that I would ever want one to if it could, it would take all the fun out of it. in 2005 we got a new planter and it used GPS for record keeping, mapping, variable rate population's but it didn't steer itself. Although it didn't steer itself it gave you kind of like a gun's iron sight you could use to steer by manually. I soon realized this was much more accurate than steering by mechanical marker that was hard to see in dark or dry lumpy ground. I used the GPS for spraying and loved it because you never had a good way of knowing where you sprayed you couldn't see it. in 2007 we bought a used rubber track tractor and upgraded our display to a bit fancier model. the track tractor's all came with built in auto steer you just had to pay for subscription if you had the displays which we had. I had no intention of buying subscription but they gave you 15 hours of free demo. That was more than enough to get me to subscribe. I love it in my tractor, I can watch things so much better ,apply seed and chemicals so much more accurately. Having said all that I see many problems for auto steer cars. It still takes someone to tell it where to go and even my tractors my brothers and hired help are always asking me how  to program something. The fields don't have roads that have construction and change where they run. I don't remember ever taking a trip with a GPS device that didn't try to lead me astray because road was changed. As for smart roads unless manufactures are going to build them I don't see it happening our roads, bridges, rail roads complete transportation system needs $$$$$$$$$$$$$ spent that its not getting just to maintain it. I believe Beadman is correct about the $$. and I think they will try to force it on us. Look at Cable, and Satelite TV the Government took analoge tv away now my TV cost $90 and it's all reruns and comercials. They will have a  annual subscription fee and charges for map updates and don't forget Taxes. And if you don't pay you'll be getting somebody else to take you where you want to go. I'm not saying it'll never happen just not sure I want it to.
A hot cup of coffee and a beautiful sunrise

Offline Chippintuff

  • Member
  • Posts: 777
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2016, 01:13:27 pm »
It takes time to work out a totally new technology. Any of you who are old enough to have learned how to drive on a "standard" transmission, think back to see how long it has taken automatics to replace the old standards. Think about the space shuttle. At first, that thing was landed by men.

As for technology taking away jobs, I remember when cotton pickers came on the market, people in farming communities were complaining that those machines and all such mechanizing would put everybody out of work. The same thing has applied to our switch to robots. Mechanization has greatly enhanced our standard of living. Of course there is a trade-off. We become more and more dependent on each other.

WA

Offline Strichev

  • Member
  • Posts: 172
Re: Autopilot Cars
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2016, 03:09:54 pm »
Any of you who are old enough to have learned how to drive on a "standard" transmission, think back to see how long it has taken automatics to replace the old standards.
WA

Here in the Old World we all learn to drive with standard transmissions. Automatics are rare and somewhat despised. Although slowly they're catching on. But yeah, AI driving is the future eventually it'll be much safer than human operated cars.