Author Topic: dugout canoes  (Read 4612 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jkyarcher

  • Member
  • Posts: 64
dugout canoes
« on: June 19, 2016, 10:51:34 pm »
I was wondering about some information on dugout canoes.  There are some large poplars around my house and have read it was used some.

I was wondering what kind of tools are recommended and where to get some affordable tools. I don't think i'll do the burn method but would like to use hand tools.

Just wondering if anyone has advice on beginners mistakes and also using and caring/maintenance on canoe if I am successful in building one. 

thanks for any info

Offline stickbender

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,828
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2016, 02:06:34 am »

     Never made a full sized one, but made some toy ones, out of wood, and the stems of the cabbage palm.
But you can google Seminole, and canoes of the Indians of the Mississippi valley. And you can get some ideas from there, or you can just design your own. 
I would suggest that you draw out a design, and use that as a reference .  Also of course you have to decide which side of the tree will be the top or bottom.  Shape out the ends first, then start on the hollowing out process, after you have shaped the bottom.  If you do not want to use ancient tools, I would suggest, a skill saw to make initial long cuts, then cross cuts to ease the taking out the material. But mark out the sides, and any cross members, or seats.  An adz is an ancient tool, that is still used today.  It is a good tool to look for in garage sales, flea markets, or on line.  you can use a large gouge, a hatchet, etc.  But an adz is ideal for this project.  If you want seats, or cross supports, you can carve them out of the wood, or make projections, on the sides, and cut a slot in them, and place cross pieces in them, and if you want to use natural materials, you can drill a hole in the side projections, but just past the slot, not all the way through, you want them to be fairly stout, and then put a dowel with a fox wedge in it, and a wedge in the other end after hammering the peg home.  A fox wedge is just a wedge that is in a slot cut into the dowel, and when it is hammered home it expands and locks the peg in place.  But it is there permanently!  Also placement of the wedge in the peg should be across the grain of the peg, and not with the grain of the projection, as you can split it.   You can cut slots in each end of the peg, and put a wedge in the outside end also.  Then just trim.  I would also do as the Indians did, once you have the bottom side decided on, shape it first, and if you want a keel, even a small one will help in the dugout not being too tipsy.  It can unload you in a hurry!  Then once you have shaped the bottom, every few feet, drill a hole about an inch and a half deep.  That is so that when you start hollowing out the the inside, and you reach a hole, you are deep enough, and you can keep your bottom fairly consistent in thickness.  Just peg the holes afterwards, and trim the pegs off.
   Anyway, that is how I would go about it, and like I said I have never made full sized one.  So I may be all wrong.  I would put cross members, or seats in it to help support the sides, and maybe keep it from warping.
You will have to shape the sided also, to get a good straight canoe, then start hollowing.  But me personally I would carve a keel, in the bottom, and at the ends also.  The Seminoles had a keel like projection on the front and back of their dugouts.  Anyway, that is how "I" would go about it.  It is a lot of work, even with modern tools.  But it will make you appreciate, what our ancestors went through to make these crafts.  If you can find a big tulip popular, that is the ideal canoe wood, other than cypress which unfortunately extremely few large ones exist, due to the logging in the early part of this and the preceding century.  If you have any large cedars, they are also ideal for your project.  But they also are hard to find, and if you find one, it may be protected.  There is a huge grove of REALLY big cedars, here in Montana, near Troy, Mt. Called the Ross Cedars.  These things are anywhere from six to 12 feet in diameter.  Boy you could make a war canoe, and a trade canoe out out one tree!  But you would be in prison before you were able to shape it.   Any way, those are my suggestions, and like I said I may be completely wrong, so take them with so many grains of salt.  But good luck with your project, and of course we need pictures! ;) :D :D
                                    Wayne

Offline JW_Halverson

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,923
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2016, 04:50:44 pm »
Once you have your log selected and cut, roll it into the water.  Roll it over and over a few times, get it spinning good.  Then let it roll itself until it settles in the water.  Mark the upper side and roll it again.  Does that mark come up again?  Well then, your log has a preference for how it wants to ride in the water. 

Now carve away everything that ain't canoe! 

 >:D
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline Zuma

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,324
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2016, 08:50:55 pm »
Chainsaw - Grinder  should be all you need>:D
A rip chain for the long cuts :)
Zuma
If you are a good detective the past is at your feet. The future belongs to Faith.

Offline jkyarcher

  • Member
  • Posts: 64
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2016, 07:13:25 pm »
Thank for the good info.

One more very obvious question how big around should the
Tree be. What is a minimum recommended diameter

Offline DC

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,396
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2016, 08:15:17 pm »
I know you said you don't want to do the burn method but one of the reasons for using it is the heat softens the wood(we all know that) and if you drive in spreaders while it's hot you can make a much better shaped canoe. Wider and flatter midships makes for a much more stable boat. I saw a video of someone doing it but I can't find it.

Offline mullet

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 22,911
  • Eddie Parker
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2016, 09:59:36 pm »
Pine, cypress or sycamore.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline jkyarcher

  • Member
  • Posts: 64
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2016, 05:26:53 pm »
Good point dc

Does anyone have a recommended diameter
To start with

Offline Pat B

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 37,633
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2016, 07:16:39 pm »
Think of how wide you want the canoe to be. I'd say at least 24".
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline DC

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,396
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2016, 07:52:14 pm »
This my be the one I was thinking of. The end result is the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvrNqyX7XPQ

Offline RBLusthaus

  • Member
  • Posts: 753
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2016, 06:14:18 pm »
There is a video out there where after the boat was mostly hollowed, they had it up on horses, filled it party with water, and inserted hot rocks till the water was real hot, an inserted cross members to spread the sides.  The weight of the water and rocks also had the effect of sagging the bottom of the boat in the middle creating some rocker fore and aft.

I would love to try this one day - the whole dug out thing, I mean. 

JW's idea about finding the natural top of the log is genius, I think. 

Russ

Offline BowEd

  • Member
  • Posts: 9,390
  • BowEd
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2016, 07:47:02 am »
Very cool....Looks like an ambitious worth while project to me.Hope you show pics of it later.Slick way of finding the thickness depth with dowels too.That myself would be of concern to me.
When I used to rendezvous lots the Lewis and Clark rendezvous at Onawa in western Iowa has a couple of cottonwood dugout canoes and the oak keel boat functioning at the lake there.Pretty neat.
BowEd
You got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
Ed

Offline Onebowonder

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,495
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2016, 05:35:12 pm »
The fire/burned out technique also avoids cracks and splits and other impact damage as you might cause with pounding and hacking tools.  With the controlled burning method, you are only scraping away charred wood.  Power tools might not create the same kind of damage as hacking tools like an ax or an adze. 

The Cherokee used giant Poplars, but they are not too easy to find these days.  I saw records of one that was built from a tree the was nearly 5 feet in diameter.

OneBow

Offline mullet

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 22,911
  • Eddie Parker
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2016, 09:49:01 pm »
The fire also helped in sealing the dugouts when pine was used.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline Outbackbob48

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,752
Re: dugout canoes
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2016, 06:45:27 am »
I attended the Bald Eagle knapping this weekend and they delivered a 12' Tulip Popalar log and Steve (caveman2553) tore into it with all stone axes and adz, Totally amazed at the chips he was getting with his peck and grind stone axes, check out Bald Eagle site or maybe Steve will see this and add some pics. Bob