Author Topic: Stop Settling (pic heavy) (Read 6254 times)

Sasquatch · « **on:** May 06, 2016, 01:43:19 pm »

So I go over to a friends house for a gathering recently. He pulls out a bot and bag of points that he collected in south texas. He owned property that had a camp on it. He found all of these artifacts on top of the ground. One really stood out impressed me . This was by far the thinnest and widest artifact I have ever seen. I can see that majority of points were fat/ crude. There are lots of different theories about this. I think that these crude points could have been made by young or learning Indians. And I understand that with rough material come thicker points (eastern USA). but we have access to plenty of quality stone via online purchases and trades. So we have no excuse. Anyway In this collection I picked up 3-4 pieces that were clearly knapped by an expert. Edges were sharp, thin and perfect lines. These finds have challenged me to "Stop Settling " I know that we are all excited when we produce our first points. But Im kinda tired and disgusted when people say they are going to hunt with these. IMHO it doesn't look good to the mass majority of hunters( compound, gun). Lets do better! lets start getting them thin and sharp. The last point is a cast of the most delicate point ever made.

Sasquatch · « **Reply #1 on:** May 06, 2016, 01:45:23 pm »

Sasquatch · « **Reply #2 on:** May 06, 2016, 01:46:14 pm »

the good ones

Sasquatch · « **Reply #3 on:** May 06, 2016, 01:47:25 pm »

le0n · « **Reply #4 on:** May 06, 2016, 02:02:20 pm »

^^ those are some super clean lines.

also, looks like a horned lizard eccentric on the right:

Stoker · « **Reply #5 on:** May 06, 2016, 02:37:16 pm »

Very cool.. Some real nice looking points
Thanks Leroy

Mounter · « **Reply #6 on:** May 06, 2016, 02:38:28 pm »

Wow, nice collection..

Could be that just like in modern society, some indians were perfectionist, while others had more of a "that's good enough" attitude?

nclonghunter · « **Reply #7 on:** May 06, 2016, 03:42:38 pm »

Agreed that thick points that are not sharp may be less effective but I would also question if real thin and weak points are also less effective due to easily being broken. There is likely a good place in the middle that allows sharp edges and strength. Points with smooth tapers of medium thickness is my preference.

Hummingbird Point · « **Reply #8 on:** May 06, 2016, 05:03:49 pm »

I don't see anything in the pictures that I would describe as "fat/crude", but then again I live where 99% of the points were made of quartz or quartzite.

I would offer, only as a "devil's advocate" type of thing, that your perspective has been skewed by modern knappings' obsession with thinness. If the vast majority of those points are "fat/crude" and only a few are thin and well made, I would offer that "fat/crude" was the norm the ancient knappers were striving for and the few ultra thin ones are anomolous. The guys making those points did this for a living, they had to live off what they could produce from those tools. If they are mostly "fat/crude", wouldn't you have to conclude there is a good reason for that?

Keith

JoJoDapyro · « **Reply #9 on:** May 06, 2016, 05:18:28 pm »

How about this, We have to go to work, and pay for the place we are going to knap, and the stone, and the tools. We no longer have the "Luxury" of learning how to do things to survive, and be able to completely hone that craft. I could make an arrowhead that would take game just fine, or, I could "Waste" my material and have no arrow heads, and then where does it leave me? I fell I am better than I was, but if I would have never decided that it was good enough, and broken or destroyed every point I ever attempted, I would have given up a long time ago. I already ruin close to 99%

mullet · « **Reply #10 on:** May 06, 2016, 05:44:16 pm »

I kinda agree with everybody else. And I imagine the person that made the thin, perfect points depended on someone else to bring him the bacon. With all of those rocks you guys have in Texas to bounce an arrow off of, I bet he stayed busy replacing all of those paper thin points.

Zuma · « **Reply #11 on:** May 06, 2016, 06:44:11 pm »

We may be missing the POINT just a bit. Maybe not.

Take into consideration that the majority of found points
were intended to be hafted on thrusting spears, throwing
spears atatl darts, and knives. Now, most real abo arrowheads
I have collected are quite thin and triangular even in the east.

Now this is not to say that those that hunt with stone tips
should Settle. I agree with Sas. If you take a stone arrowhead
to the woods, make it a real damn good one. Buy it if you can't
make it. They are cheap these days. We can't use poison and if
you have to track your animals too far they may wind up on your
neighbors lawn or crow bait.
Most important--Don't release untill you know you can hit your
Mark. No offence Mark.

Zuma

le0n · « **Reply #12 on:** May 06, 2016, 06:56:01 pm »

the design was most likely highly dependent on the application or purpose. i believe most of those very meticulous pieces were probably reserved for ceremonial purposes.

regardless; what you learn about the people that were here before us is that they were one with nature and they were not viewed as wasteful.

the 'crude' points were highly effective. which is why they were recreated millions upon millions of times.

Sasquatch · « **Reply #13 on:** May 06, 2016, 09:37:24 pm »

Quote from: JoJoDapyro on May 06, 2016, 05:18:28 pm

How about this, We have to go to work, and pay for the place we are going to knap, and the stone, and the tools. We no longer have the "Luxury" of learning how to do things to survive, and be able to completely hone that craft. I could make an arrowhead that would take game just fine, or, I could "Waste" my material and have no arrow heads, and then where does it leave me? I fell I am better than I was, but if I would have never decided that it was good enough, and broken or destroyed every point I ever attempted, I would have given up a long time ago. I already ruin close to 99%

Sounds like you are taking this personally? I never called anyone out, I am in the same boat as everybody else. But the only way to grow is to challenge ourselves. So when I saw that Primitive Man could make points that thin with abo. I had to challenge us all to do better. I use copper and understand modern physics and I still haven't produced anything like that. We have the "Luxery" not them. See we don't hunt for provision hardly, It's mostly sport, so when we go to harvest an animal. I think we owe that animal out best.

Nclonghunter- I agree thin to medium thickness is my preference, about the breaking upon entry, flint breaks with razor sharp edges so it would still do the job.

Zuma · « **Reply #14 on:** May 06, 2016, 10:03:14 pm »

Quote from: Sasquatch on May 06, 2016, 09:37:24 pm

I think we owe that animal out best.

This is where it's at. It is not really to important
what others did or when.
Zuma

Primitive Archer