Hazel warbow

[Lucasade]

That's great - thank you.

[mikekeswick]

If I had 3 inches of set at 18 -20 inches I'd use it for kindling.....
Trapping is a very good idea. Hazel is very strong in tension and not so great in compression. Heat treating does wonders for it.
How do know when you have overdone trapping....when you raise a splinter.
As Will says though a bend test will tell you everything you need to know.
However I have never yet touched a piece of whitewood that didn't benefit from trapping and heat treating. Of course you can make bows without it but you can make a better bow with it!

[Lucasade]

It's probably a bit late for bend testing - everything between a log and what I've got now went up the chimney six months ago 

I've tidied up about two thirds of it with the scraper and last night steamed out the massive reflex in one limb so when it's settled down again I'll do a bit of trapping. Heat treating is on the agenda but I understand I need to wait until most of the way through tillering before doing that.

I also need to dig out the two little knots you thought could be a problem before I get too much further. Am I right in thinking I fill them with superglue mixed with sawdust?

[Lucasade]

Don't need nock overlays, no.  When I'm making bows with sidenocks I cut the tillering nocks on the side straight away into the bare wood, and leave them like that until the bow is finished.  Especially at 80lb or something, you're not going to have an issue.  You can actually leave the tips completely bare on the finished bow, with no horn at all.  The horn is only for soft woods like yew, which can be chewed up by a string. 

Hmm - I put it up on the tiller just now and the string split the top nock. I was pulling it to 100# which may have something to do with it, or I've not cut the nock deep enough or I need tip overlays. Can anyone put up a picture of what a proper self side nock should look like please? Meantime I've got some yew heartwood scraps so I'll rasp down the nocks and fit some overlays I think.

[Del the cat]

Put on horn overlays or full horn nocks.
If it has split, it's telling you to listen to the wood rather than dubious advice.
Del

[Lucasade]

I shall redouble my efforts to find some cow horn. If this makes it it will get full horn nocks as the string has grooved the wood around the bottom nock too after only about 20 flexes.

Will some hardwood do for overlays in the meantime?

[Del the cat]

I shall redouble my efforts to find some cow horn. If this makes it it will get full horn nocks as the string has grooved the wood around the bottom nock too after only about 20 flexes.

Will some hardwood do for overlays in the meantime?

Highland horn sell nice pale horn tips, I've had it described as both cow horn and Waterbuffalo horn. If you tell him what it's for he will sell you decent stuff. He sounds a bit dour on the phone but is very helpfull. I buy reasonable quantities and he throws in extra srappy bits which are fine for nocks and arrowplates. Most of the tips he sells as for a nocks will actually make a pair of 'em. The black stuff is cheaper but not so nice on a warbow.
If you just want some bits for overlays, PM me and I can send you some offcuts.
Del

[Lucasade]

Thank you - PM sent.

[WillS]

Certainly shouldn't need tip overlays or horn with hazel.  I'd imagine your string is slightly too thin which will bite in and split the wood, or the nock was a bit dodgy.  Fitting yew overlays won't do anything, as yew is much softer than hazel. 

They need to be nice and rounded, very smooth and not too deep.  Side nocks are quite fiddly, and it's easy to make a hash of them (or treat them as if they're normal nocks cut on one side only) which I assume is why most bowyers just ignore them, despite the fact that they're probably the only way English longbows/warbows were made until Victorian times!  Stick with it, cos once you get them to work it's very rewarding.  Especially when nobody else is doing it

[Lucasade]

Thanks for the pics - I'm using 12-strand linen string which doesn't seem overly thin, but I'm going with overlays now as I'd rather not lose the bow. Nock a bit dodgy is highly likely!

[WillS]

String sounds fine.  Maybe there was just an edge or something that focused too much stress in a small spot?  Pretty unusual though.  It's more common to have the horn itself fail, which is why it's so important to file through the horn deep into the wooden tip at quite a large angle.

I've seen lots of people make them like Victorian nocks and just twist the whole thing around to one side, which looks awful and is a recipe for disaster - especially with buffalo horn.

Post pics of what you've done - always easier to see what's going on!

[Lucasade]

Okay, new month, new broadband data allowance 

Here's some pics of the bottom nock. The top nock was very similar but has now been rasped down flat ready for overlays.









On the last one you can see where the string is already wearing the wood and it's only had about 20 flexes on the tiller.

[WillS]

Yep - wrong angle, too shallow and nasty sharp edges!   

[Lucasade]

Shallow and sharp edges is easy - does the angle need to be steeper or shallower?

[WillS]

Slightly shallower - almost square to the back.  And make sure it's subtly curved downwards, like a  frowning face.