Alan Case's flight arrows - learning how to make them!

[joachimM]

Alan - one more thing have you ever thought about using this technique with any of the dense, stiff tropical hardwoods? Obviously you would need a perfect board for no tearout etc.

I don't think there's a good reason to use tropical dense hardwoods: they aren't stiffer and denser than the outside strips of the better bamboo.
The outer side of bamboo can have a density of 1.1 (try to beat that with tropical hardwoods), and has a higher elastic modulus (stiffness) compared to the stiffer tropical hardwoods like bulletwood and purpleheart. Nothing beats bamboo in this department.

Joachim

[Badger]

Alan - one more thing have you ever thought about using this technique with any of the dense, stiff tropical hardwoods? Obviously you would need a perfect board for no tearout etc.

I don't think there's a good reason to use tropical dense hardwoods: they aren't stiffer and denser than the outside strips of the better bamboo.
The outer side of bamboo can have a density of 1.1 (try to beat that with tropical hardwoods), and has a higher elastic modulus (stiffness) compared to the stiffer tropical hardwoods like bulletwood and purpleheart. Nothing beats bamboo in this department.

Joachim

[mikekeswick]

So eight new shafts from 172 grains to just over 300. They all have the same outside dimensions but varying wall thicknesses. It will be interesting to see what difference the weight makes.
I've got some parchment somewhere that I will try to fletch them with but I haven't had much luck with it in the past. Has anybody got any suggestions for good flight arrow feathers?

[PatM]

I always use Peregrine or  Needletail Swift feathers. 

[Urufu_Shinjiro]

If I ever make flight arrows I'm going to do one with an eastern two fletch using my (small) parrots feathers for a lark (bird pun only slightly intended), lol.

[mikekeswick]

I've used lots of different parrot feathers in the past and in general they aren't very good....but I do like your humour!
I've been so busy I haven't been able to finish up all the shafts I've made. I managed to get one of the 300grain shafts done and it flew about 320 yds in a blustery cross wind. I'll be getting the rest of the shafts nocks/points fitted soon then it will be out for some testing. Also my Turkish bow will be ready to shoot by then and it will be interesting to compare the two designs side by side. I reall can't wait for my dedicated Turkish flight bows to be ready but that 6 months off yet.

[Del the cat]

320 yards, 300 gn arrow.. what was the bow?
Del

[joachimM]

320 yards (wait, in meters this sounds a bit less spectacular  )!!
you got my attention

[mikekeswick]

320 isn't accurate that is just me pacing the distance out but i'm normally pretty close with pacing.
This is the bow - http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,56281.0.html   I made an 8 strand B50 string for it.
I have a couple of Turkish flight bows in the works and that is where my main focus lies....but they won't be ready for a good while yet. I aim to make one about 60 - 70 lb and the other somewhere around 100#. I've set myself a goal of 600yds.
I haven't had time to complete these arrows yet and I haven't been in the mood for the fiddly nocks. However I will try and get these arrows finished by the weekend. I suspect that the bow i'm using at the moment won't like arrows below around 250 ish grains but we'll see.

[joachimM]

I saw that bow already and had high expectations for flight shooting. Very good design IMO. Keep us posted on your progress!

[avcase]

Mike,
Excellent progress on the arrows, and a beautiful bow to go with it!  I wish I could build flight arrows as quick as you have. I am lucky to finish a dozen per year. Hahaha!

Yes, I have used this same technique with hardwoods. One of the first arrow shafts I ever made was an arrow shaft made of alternating strips of hickory and purple heart. During the glue-up, I put a deliberate twist into the shaft to give it a crazy candy-cane look. Billet wood or Massaranduba is a good candidate because it is very shock resistant. The arrow will need to be a little larger in diameter with a dense hardwood in order to make up for the lower material stiffness compared to Tonkin or Japanese Arrow bamboo.

600 yards is an excellent goal for a hand shot all-natural materials bow. Not many have achieved this, but it is certainly achievable given Some determination and your skill. The Turks had a special level of achievement for their flight archers when they reached somewhere near 600 yards. I have to look up what the title is called, but I would like to create a special recognition under World Archery/USA Archery for this level of achievement as well as maintain a list of archers who have accomplished such a feat using all-natural materials equipment. I hope to see you on this list someday!

Alan

[mikekeswick]

Thanks Alan. The candy cane arrow sounds pretty funky and after making some of these arrows I can see it...funnily enough because I inadvertently got some twist in one of mine. Now you've got me thinking, some target arrows made like that would get some heads turning haha! Regarding the hardwoods I think I will have a try at making a few even if it's just for experience of 'what does what' to the distances.
600 yds is a long way off for me - if you'll pardon the pun but there is nothing like a good challenge to get me fired up.
Yes I am aware of the Turkish 600yds 'barrier' I think it was the distance required to be shot before acceptance into the Turkish Archery Guild in Kani's time.
I see that the flight shoot this year is on the 2-5th September, I was going to B.C. this year for the whole of September...maybe I can convince my friends we need to go to Utah first....

[mikekeswick]

So i'm off out to test half of these arrows today. Lets see what they do!

[Badger]

   Report back how they do Mike.

[mikekeswick]

The weather has been terrible since I said I was going out to test them....very gusty winds and rain.....hopefully it's going to clear up soon!