How did bowyers harvest so much yew?

[poplar600]

The majority of yew in Europe is knotty, kanrly and twisted. The stuff doesn't grow straight, especially as compared to  other woods, such as ash. The good stuff also takes an age (hundreds of years) to grow, so it could hardly be tended to or farmed for the sole purposes of bow staves.
Yet England was making thousands of thousands of yew bows, and also importing thousands of thousands of bow staves. England even taxed merchants and required them to 'pay in yew staves'.
How was this even possible considering how rare good yew is to come across? Maybe they chopped all the good stuff down, but it's been hundreds of years since the warbow was decommissioned, so plenty of trees would have replaced the ones cut.

I keep hearing Alpine yew was also considered the best, but most of that is short, twisted and stubby, just like Juniper in the desert. The MR bows looked super clean and with only few knots, almost like pacific yew.

Thoughts?

[Del the cat]

The first two lines of you post are entirely incorrect.

I'm not going to quote stuff I've heard or read...
But bear in mind, in the middle ages woodland management would have been the norm. It doesn't take that much effort and they probably knew a lot more about it than we do.
Here's a post on my blog that shows what a fallen Yew will do if left to it's own devices. Now if you imagine visiting that tree once a year, rubbing off unwanted buds and maying thinning out the odd shoot, cultivating and harvesting bow timber no longer seems such a daft idea does it.
You can also see they are growing straight and true.
Draw your own conclusions.
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2011/04/yew-staves-in-tree.html
Del

[Heffalump]

The first two lines of you post are entirely incorrect.

Don't say you didn't ask, Mr.Poplar! 

John T.

[AndrewS]

In former times the sovereigns  have places where only yew is cultivated and thisplaces were strictly protected by the sovereign.
Often you can image where this was, if the place is called for example "Ibengarten" (Garden of yew).
15 years ago, I was on such a place near Dermbach  in the Rhoen, Germany and there are old yew trees in the woods more than 500 years old and you need minimum two people to encircle the biggest trees with your arms. There are over 350 old yews in this place.

[Del the cat]

In former times the sovereigns  have places where only yew is cultivated and thisplaces were strictly protected by the sovereign.
Often you can image where this was, if the place is called for example "Ibengarten" (Garden of yew).
15 years ago, I was on such a place near Dermbach  in the Rhoen, Germany and there are old yew trees in the woods more than 500 years old and you need minimum two people to encircle the biggest trees with your arms. There are over 350 old yews in this place.

V interesting, thanks for sharing.
Del

[iowabow]

Del that fallen yew is a very interesting post.

[JW_Halverson]

Del that fallen yew is a very interesting post.

Likely enough someone long ago saw a tree like that and thought encouraging this would (wood?) go a long way toward large scale farming of yew.

[poplar600]

We're talking about 100,000's of prime slow growing yew staves. The same tree would have had to be "encouraged" by multiple generations. Most T.Baccata, though not all, is worthless when compared to it's North American counterpart.

I can't see how England acquired such vast amounts of tier 1 yew wood.

[poplar600]

In former times the sovereigns  have places where only yew is cultivated and thisplaces were strictly protected by the sovereign.
Often you can image where this was, if the place is called for example "Ibengarten" (Garden of yew).
15 years ago, I was on such a place near Dermbach  in the Rhoen, Germany and there are old yew trees in the woods more than 500 years old and you need minimum two people to encircle the biggest trees with your arms. There are over 350 old yews in this place.

I know places like that. Most of the trees are very quick growing (15rpi) and often do not grow straight.

I'm talking 80rpi stuff that is virtually free of any big knots.

[Ruddy Darter]

Here's a fallen yew with new branch/tree at my local copse.. I've been eyeing it but I've decided not to cut it, the original canopy has fallen away out of sunlight and the new branch/tree has formed the new canopy so I may kill this old yew if I cut it, but a good example of how straight they grow, its a good 7ft clean and 4"+ diameter. If it grew in this manner in an alpine region I reckon it would make a top bow(?).

 Ruddy Darter.

[Del the cat]

We're talking about 100,000's of prime slow growing yew staves. The same tree would have had to be "encouraged" by multiple generations. Most T.Baccata, though not all, is worthless when compared to it's North American counterpart.

I can't see how England acquired such vast amounts of tier 1 yew wood.

Even these days some jobs are done over generations, woodland management, breeding of livestock and such like, it's nothing out of the ordinary.. I think maybe you are viewing it with the eyes of a 21st century urban person.

Yew will grow with very tight grain if many of the side branches are taken off, which they would be if it was managed.
I cut a limb which had been growing near vertical, the top had been cut off many years before and it had one side branch at the top which was still live. The wood was very dark and tight grained, I'm assuming it's because the growth was slowed by removing most of the branches.
I recently had a bloke turn up with a stave of "High Altitude Italian Yew" he proudly showed me how tight the rings were. I went over to my pile of offcuts and picked up a piece of Yew which was cut in Suffolk (a very flat low lying county) the rings were tighter... his jaw dropped.
Del

[sieddy]

I cant really comment on this but I do find it fasinating. I would tend to agree that many generations cultivating and prtecting the Yew. But I also have wondered quite how they managed to arm the archer armies. Pretty sure they destroyed a great deal of forest to do so though.
I wanted to say respect to Ruddy Darter for leaving that Yew shoo. Thats really sound of you mate- i'd like to think that i'd be as foresight-ful but that does look like a really sweet branch! 

[poplar600]

We're talking about 100,000's of prime slow growing yew staves. The same tree would have had to be "encouraged" by multiple generations. Most T.Baccata, though not all, is worthless when compared to it's North American counterpart.

I can't see how England acquired such vast amounts of tier 1 yew wood.

Even these days some jobs are done over generations, woodland management, breeding of livestock and such like, it's nothing out of the ordinary.. I think maybe you are viewing it with the eyes of a 21st century urban person.

Yew will grow with very tight grain if many of the side branches are taken off, which they would be if it was managed.
I cut a limb which had been growing near vertical, the top had been cut off many years before and it had one side branch at the top which was still live. The wood was very dark and tight grained, I'm assuming it's because the growth was slowed by removing most of the branches.
I recently had a bloke turn up with a stave of "High Altitude Italian Yew" he proudly showed me how tight the rings were. I went over to my pile of offcuts and picked up a piece of Yew which was cut in Suffolk (a very flat low lying county) the rings were tighter... his jaw dropped.
Del

I don't buy into the "Alpine yew" as much anymore. Labelling something as "Italian" yew is just for marketing purposes. One guys sells these Italian staves for good money, and the majority of it is fast grown, kiln dried rubbish.

[WillS]

Ring count means next to nothing sometimes.  Personally I've used English Yew with about 6 rings to the inch that made bows well over 100lb even though the stave was roughed out to be about 50-60lb.  I've also seen some astonishingly high poundage self yews made of English timber with coarse rings - 150lb range at least.  If the wood is healthy the bow will be good.

I don't know if its more important with American Yew (you certainly see it bandied about on stave websites a lot as a way of distinguishing "premium" timber) but it definitely doesn't guarantee a good bow, having a high ring count with European Yew. 

There are still places in the alps that have more dead straight, knot free, dense European Yew than you could get through in a lifetime.  There is in fact a superb bowyer on this very forum who uploads photos onto Facebook of his trips into the mountains and the insane stash of beautiful yew he picks up - logs and logs of the stuff.  It's not rare if you have the time and determination to find it.

Don't get hung up on ring count!!

[poplar600]

Please may you post pictures of the yew? Is he the German guy?