paranoid question--tillering

[jeffp51]

What's the shortest stiff-handled osage self bow you have built?  I am trying to get 29 inches of draw out of a 63" stave.  I already have a 62" bendy handle bow, but after a year of shooting, it has a fair amount of set to it.  This one will be a little wider, and I hope that will help, but I could still use advice on the best chances of making this work.  I have recurved the tips, and I am ready to start tillering.  Give me your most extreme success, and how you did it.  Thanks.

[Badger]

   I do that routinely, I usually take mine out to 28" at that length but will nearly always draw them out to 29 here and there.

[Hamish]

What is the maximum limb width can you get out of the stave? The wider your limbs are the safer and less set it will take. Osage 1 &3/4" limbs min, to 2" at the fades should be a good start point.
I'm sure Badger could do a good job with 1&1/2" limbs (or less) but not everyone is anywhere near experienced as him. He undersells his tillering ability but he is a master as far as I'm concerned.

[Pappy]

That's pushing it in my opinion, a 63 inch stave is only going to be 61 or less N-N add 4 inch handle and 1 1/2 fades is  only 54 inches of working limb, 29 is asking a lot to make a long lasting durable bow. JMO.
  Pappy

[blackhawk]

Theres a couple ways to do it,but the best design to reach that draw with that length stave is a /R/D static recurve. Any recurve with tips flipped past 30° can work as well. The r/d one tho has a more built in safety feature because of the deflex handle relieving the stresses at the most worked area in such a high stress bow. If you dont go the R/D route with the handle n limbs and just make it a recurve youll need a little more width than a r/d. Youll need a good 2" of width imho,and at least 1 3/4" with the r/d. Ive done it both ways with a hair shorter than what you have. And my prefernce is to go the r/d static route. I can post examples(links to em) of both if ya like. Good luck!!!

[jeffp51]

Thanks blackhawk and the rest. Pictures would be great, especially an unbraced profile. A little clarification with my stave- it is actually 64" following the limbs, but 63" straight line between the recurves. Temporary nocks are cut in 1/2" from the tips.  The fades are about 1.8 inches wide. The limbs are knot free except for one pin knot that has a small amount of the previous ring around it.

I figure I can either deflex the handle some, or make it slightly bendy, or hope Osage is as amazing as everyone says. More opinions are welcom

[sleek]

Heat treat into the bow near the fades deflex. Then reflex the tips to bring up your string tension and allow for less stack, higher energy storage. However, leave the tips so that the distance from the tip to the back of the handle when pressed against a wall equals about the amount of set you got on your last bow. This bow if tillered correctly ( not just in shape but in not overstressing the bow in the process IE stringing it to soon ) should take little to no set and be much much faster as well.

[blackhawk]

I extended the draw on this one for a customer because it still had the width in the limbs(2"+),and plenty of string angle left to do so...it worked like a charm n the dude loves it.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=51832.0

And heres a R/D static posted not long ago...the handle is more stiff than working but the bend does come into the fades. ..you could easily make this stiff handled and have healthy limbs and tips forqard of the handle yet.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=54420.0

Also look at some of marc st louis bows...he routinely gets long draws with short-er stiff handled bows.

Anyway ya go make sure to get the bend up to the fades..you need to get everything available in your limbs to work...this is key to making a qaulity high stressed bow or fire kindling. 

[Badger]

  I agree with Blackhawk, get the handel working into fades and keep the puter limbs stiff. We see bows here all the time as short as 48" drawing 28". At 61" nock to nock it might stack a little but shouldn't be too bad.

[jeffp51]

Badger, why the stiff outer limbs--I am not doubting you, but why not get get more bend from the tips too?

I will post pictures later of what I am working with.

[Badger]

  the stiff outer limb reduce the stacking

[jeffp51]

Okay here is what I have:  I deflexed the fades so that the tips are now about 1.5 inches ahead of the back of the handle.  I am sure that will come down more in the tillering process.  I tried using Marc St. Louis'  localized steam method (towel wrapped with foil) and it worked okay, but this evening when I set out to make some minor corrections, I discovered several cracks in the back in the handle area.  The longest reaches about 6 inches past the fade.  the cracks all run with the grain and since I was careful about following grain during the layout, none of them run off or even come close to an edge.  I superglued the heck out of them already, so I am going to hope for the best.  Have a look and please comment--all criticism is welcome.  Someday I may be good enough to just present finished bows here.  Until then, I still appreciate all the help I can get and I am not too proud to ask for it.

[Pappy]

Looks good so far. I wouldn't worry about the cracks.
 Pappy

[Floridabowyer]

What Pappy said.

[Selfbowman]

Looking good! Arvin