WHere to procure EWB

[WillS]

Rich, there weren't any heads at all found on the Mary Rose.  The Tudor head that would have been used with arrows of that period are significantly different to a Type 16 as shown in my post.

This is a Tudor bodkin, based on the finds at Portchester Castle just down the road from where the Mary Rose sank.  The original is dated to the same time period.



The expert I consider far more experienced than Hector is Mark Stretton and I've had many conversations with him regarding the Type 16.  His consensus having inspected them in person numerous times is that they are indeed fire welded.  You can make them by splitting the end of the point and forging them back to the socket but analysis of extant Type 16s doesn't support this, both in the metallurgy and the construction.  The one in my photo was fire welded.

As for how common they were - some say very common, some say quite rare.  I'm in the latter camp.  They are so time consuming and expensive to manufacture that they're simply not practical for warfare.  The most common type of head during the Hundred Years War would have been a Type 10, and with the development of the swage for a Tudor bodkin that would have taken the place of the Type 10.

The Type 16's barbs don't move, no.  They are aerodynamic with the barbs sitting so low to the socket and once they're in, you ain't getting them out again.  Most of mine have the barbs packed with stuff I simply can't remove as the design is so effective. 

[WillS]

This by the way is an original Tudor bodkin. 



These are the ultimate mass production arrowhead.  You make the socket in about 2 heats, and the point is placed into a swage and the whole shape is done in one hit and some edge grinding. 

[root]

Mr Stretton is a very famous person when it comes to the longbow.
World record holder and very in the "know" when it comes to the longbow.

I've also been directed to his videos over the last few months.
I DO consider him a expert.

Yes about three heats to make a arrow right now I'm using about 5 as I said I'm using a wood/charcoal fire when I make them with the blower either off or close to it. Once I have a proven consistent system down I'll use coal and probably forge them in between while I wait for other items to come up to heat.

I don't think the type 16 was a expanding arrow either. I also am pretty sure once it was in a object getting back out was a chore.
Splitting the front and forging it to design then back over the cone is how I would do it. that was the impression I got looking at the X-Ray from that article I posted. It would be the fasted most productive way to make them.

I had already thought about making a swage for the Tudor style tips. And ordered one Tudor tip yesterday.  ( reverse engineer and pattern)
Also ordered a luggage scale to find the true Draw poundage of my aluminum long bow and crossbow.  The bow  shoots these heavy ones I made well just stuck on a aluminum shaft. It's 59 inches long and a 1/4 inch thick I make the strings 55 1/2 inches.
Draw works best with a 29 inch arrow and I can draw it to 28 inches.
R&D is time consuming and as I said before I  have paying orders that I have to fill, a day job 3 days a week, and a family.

I guess like everyone I'm busy LOL!

Rich

[WillS]

Charcoal is a pain ain't it.  I've just finished building my Great Bellows (6ft long!) and charcoal forge, and while chatting to Mark the other day about starting he made it painfully apparent I'm gonna spend more time learning how to manage the fire than actually forging anything!

[root]

Charcoal is a pain ain't it.  I've just finished building my Great Bellows (6ft long!) and charcoal forge, and while chatting to Mark the other day about starting he made it painfully apparent I'm gonna spend more time learning how to manage the fire than actually forging anything!

Yes wood/charcoal is a pain even more so with manual air. that's why I have a electric blower on a variable knob. I can adjust or shut off as needed. when I burn wood/charcoal I only burn a milk crate in a 8 to 10 hr. day. coal even less as I shut the air off when there is no iron in the fire.

Fire management is KEY to properly forging. You are smart to go with charcoal/wood/coal as it lets you move the work around to only heat the part you are working on. It's the main reason I don't use propane/gas.

As promised A pic of my two bows I currently own. These are the ones I'm making my tips for and will be making the arrows over the winter also. ( inside work)

I am trying to get a proper English long bow as we speak. ( made in England)
It's kinda like the swords I own.
You can buy a USA made Katana but it's not a true Japanese sword unless it's made in Japan.

I wonder if Mr. Stretton sells those metal electrical  outlet cover templates I saw in his video last month?
I'd sure like to buy one. It would save reinventing the wheel.
 I went to order the Bodkin from his site yesterday but the site was out of stock and I didn't see any Tudor ones listed. So I was forced to order elsewhere.

Pix of the bows.
 

Rich

[Josh B]

Whatever you decide to go with for a bow, I would do it sooner than later so you can retire the bow you have.  Those aluminum limbed bows have a reputation for hurting folks when the metal gets tired and the limb breaks.  I am enjoying the conversation about the bodkins.  Josh

[WillS]

Rich, the absolute best place to get mediaeval arrowheads to study from is a guy called Miloslav Krizan.  He's Slovakian, and trained under Mark for a short time.  He supplies virtually all the arrowheads to the English Warbow Society now, and is responsible for the heads I've shown in this thread, both the stunning fire welded 16 and the Tudor bodkin.  You will not find a more accurate representation of any head than his.

[root]

WillS
I searched for Mr. Krizan and found videos but nowhere that his product is for sale.

I found a ELB and another member has also offered to make me one if the 1st one falls through.
So I'll end up with a nice one sooner rather then later.

Gun Doc I'm not worried about any of the two bows I own failing in any form. I don't store them strung and I know what to look for with alloys and metal for stress.
I've probably shot the bow more the last month testing then I have in the last 20 years I've owned it.

I will however take your warning and examine it closer as I use it now.
Tomorrow I should be back to making bodkins and other sharp pointy things to finish inside for the winter.

I'll also start a new thread in the arrows section as I get more tips made.

Rich

[WillS]

His stuff is only available through Facebook.  Worth signing up just for that though - you genuinely won't find better.

[root]

Just got slam'n steel ( tool order)
and low and behold on the front porch was my luggage scale.

So like the adult kid I am I stung up that aluminun bow in the pic above.

10 draws with the wife behind me and 3 inches to go the luggage scale didn't allow me to get my full 28 inches.


it came out to 47.9 lbs 7 times and 47.8 3 times so I'll wager what I thought was a 35 or 40 lbs bow is in fact a 50 lbs draw.
I can draw it with ease too. That was what aways made me think it was lighter bow.
I'm going to shorten the strap on the scale tomorrow and try and have the wife get a pic or two of the poundage in full draw and light.

I'm glad I didn't rush right out and buy a bow as I was going to go t a 50 lbs long bow and I have a chance to buy a 80 lbs at 28 inch draw.
If I can't negotiate a price/trade with that person there is a board member here that is willing to help me out.
I'll just have to see if he can up the draw weight from what our Emails have been discussing.

I also haven't had a chance yet to check out Mr. Krizan's FB page. this order has taken the last 3 days to fill and I'm two parts short so I'm pretty busy. But I should be done and shipped tomorrow and back to making sharp pointy things on Thurs.

Rich