stronges bow on the world

[alanesq]

Mark Stretton set the world record for a longbow at 200lb draw weight with Guinness world records a few years back.  Den Erickson may well be able to shoot such draw weights but certainly does not hold the world record, to claim to be and to actualy be are two entirely different things.
I can still not find any listing of Stretton in the Guinness Book....or on their Website to verify this...can you find it and post it???

I went to my local library today to check this out
turns out the book no longer lists all records, its just a selection of the most "interesting" ones
the web site states it is only a small selection of records you can search there

it seems the only way to find out is to text the question in
see details at their website - guinnessworldrecords.com   (after you search for something)
this usually costs £1 but you get 2 tries for free

so I gave this a go and sure enough the reply soon came back "Mark Stretton - 200lbs"

So anyone who can pull a heavier bow the record is still there to be broken (details on the website how to claim the record)

[alanesq]

It only matters if it can hit....
Perhaps you might like to consider the same challenge I put to Mark and others in the heavy bow community. Though some have agreed that a benchmark in accuracy would be useful, no-one thus far has made the effort to set such a benchmark.
The proposal was to shoot 72 x consecutive arrows in sets of three or six at 100 yards at the standard 48" target face. (FITA 122cm) and to record the number of hits and the score on 5 zone scoring (Gold 9,Red 7,Blue 5,Black 3 & White 1)
The general reaction has been that target shooting is irrelevant, despite the fact that target shooting is historically an offshoot of practice for military shooting.

I shoot a 120lb bow at target archery (although I am very much a beginner so not very good at it)
but weather permitting on Sunday I will give it a try if you want?
The problem with this though, if someone else posts a score using a 130lb bow how do you compare the two ?

As Nick was saying though, warbows are all about getting a heavy arrow as far as you can and whilst accuracy is obviously important it is not everything (unlike other types of archery)
so I think for this to be of interest to warbow archers we really need some way of not only measuring how accurate the arrow was but also how much "stopping power" it delivered ?

btw - what score would be considered "respectable" for a standard target archer using English longbow ?

[nick1346]

Mark Stretton set the world record for a longbow at 200lb draw weight with Guinness world records a few years back.  Den Erickson may well be able to shoot such draw weights but certainly does not hold the world record, to claim to be and to actualy be are two entirely different things.
I can still not find any listing of Stretton in the Guinness Book....or on their Website to verify this...can you find it and post it???

I went to my local library today to check this out
turns out the book no longer lists all records, its just a selection of the most "interesting" ones
the web site states it is only a small selection of records you can search there

it seems the only way to find out is to text the question in
see details at their website - guinnessworldrecords.com   (after you search for something)
this usually costs £1 but you get 2 tries for free

so I gave this a go and sure enough the reply soon came back "Mark Stretton - 200lbs"

So anyone who can pull a heavier bow the record is still there to be broken (details on the website how to claim the record)

Nice one Alan! Seems your attention to detail cuts through the 'have it now' attitude of the net!

[deerhunter97370]

Ok, Historicly War archers didnt stand on a battle feild alone lbbing arrows at a charge of calvery. right so wouldnt a good mark for war bows be a group of archers shooting at a target. Joel

[boze]

 Well done Alan!  Nick, great try at trying to explain the shooting of a warbow. Believe what I say that I try everyday with the target archers that I work with.
I am also a beginner warbow enthusiast, shooting the minimum weight that would be considered a warbow. I do understand the concept of what we call "arrow rain", with three thousand archers shooting, can you imagine the deadly effect?
I regularly shoot my warbow at a 3D deer target with what I consider satisfactory results. I also find it much more difficult to shoot at a target one hundred and fifty yards away using the roving style, and consider myself happy when i get within twenty yards of it. In my opinion (and everyone knows how opinions are), leave it to the English to make the rules. After all, it is called the English Warbow.

[alanesq]

Ok, Historicly War archers didnt stand on a battle feild alone lbbing arrows at a charge of calvery. right so wouldnt a good mark for war bows be a group of archers shooting at a target. Joel

I am not sure if that question is directed at myself or Nick?

What I would say is that I think you are right, a warbow archer would probably be expected to have a good aim at any range but what I think separates warbow archery from other types is that hitting a target at 100 yards is no good at all if the arrow has no energy in it (i.e. it just bounces off the most basic form of armour)

The simplest way to measure how much energy you are putting into an arrow is shoot a standard arrow (e.g. the John Holder arrow) and see how far you can get it to go, I think this is why we tend to put a lot of emphasis on distance.

I dont know how feasible it is but I think it would be interesting to have a target archery type boss which registers how hard the arrow hits
I think this would then give the information you would need to be able to compare warbow archers at close range shooting.

[markinengland]

If the straw boss is new and firm with no soft spots a good judge of the energy is how far an arrow penetrates. As long as the basic arrow head and shaft diameter are basically the same (a standard arrow type) you should be able to measure penetration from different weight bows at different differences (assuming you could hit the thing!).

Mark in England

[alanesq]

If the straw boss is new and firm with no soft spots a good judge of the energy is how far an arrow penetrates. As long as the basic arrow head and shaft diameter are basically the same (a standard arrow type) you should be able to measure penetration from different weight bows at different differences (assuming you could hit the thing!).

This is a possibility
but as you say, this would require a brand new boss and I woulld imagine a straw boss would be no good as its not consistant over its surface

[skerm]

I suppose you could construct something similar to those scales used for measuring draw weights, but for compression instead of tension and of course in a suitable size. You'd need to mount your target on a spring with a slider that remains at the position of maximum compression of the spring after the impact. You need to determine the ratio of force and compression length of the spring, then you can calculate the energy that has been transferred to the spring by multiplying this ratio with the squared length.

[Marc St Louis]

I'm not a warbow shooter but it would seem to me that being able to hit a man size target accurately at 200 yards would not be desireable in war. Can you just imagine 200 archers each picking the same foe to shoot at? Sure he would be a pin cushion but everybody else would be free to come in and hack you to pieces.

[Rod]

Marc,
Q.Why do you suppose the Chinese tested individual accuracy at 100 instead of 200 plus?
A. Because they were able to differentiate between distances appropriate to barrage fire and distances at which individual accuracy could realistically be acvhieved by someone in command of their bow.

Alan,
It is not a test of penetration. It is a suitable test of the ability to maintain a rate of fire and a quantifiable degree of accuracy.

Your draw weight is not relevant other than that it should be a weight within your ability to command the bow, maintain a rate of fire and obviously, shoot with some degree of accuracy.

To be continued.

Rod.

[stevesjem]

Rod,
I have been reading your posts on this thread and to be honest i find it incredible how much importance you put on your own request, why first of all would any of us who shoot these heavy draw weight bows have any interest in taking up your challenge just so you can say target archers are better than warbow archers, it's like me saying, Lets all see who would like to penetrate an armour breastplate using target size arrows and a light draw weight bow, you would not even consider it, you would say this is not what this bow and arrows is designed for etc.etc, while us that can do it would be saying we are better than you.......You see it is rediculous and rather childish and has no real bearing on what both bow types are used for.
A recreational bow that target archers shoot is designed for one thing "Recreation" where archers aspire to the Horace Ford style of accurate target shooting, that is fine if that's what rocks your boat, However shooting a heavy draw weight longbow is completely different, your aim is to shoot a very heavy arrow with as much force as you can, we tend to shoot roving marks where accuracy and distance judgement are paramount at distances up to  and over 250yds, where archers can group up to 6 arrows in a close proximity to a flag placed in the ground, to be able to do this requires  alot more skill than shooting huge numbers of arrows at a fixed range target, where you have the opportunity to zone in on your target by repeatedly shooting at the same distance, shooting a warbow requires complete control over the draw weight to shoot it well.
BTW there is no fire involved with shooting a longbow!

Anyway that is all i have to say on it.

Steve

[deerhunter97370]

Yankee and John, This board you just posted on is ENGLISH WARBOWS this comment would make sence if the disscusion was in Shooting and Hunting board. Plus Howard Hill Shoot Hunting bow in exess of 80# for the flatter trajectery. He used a 110# bow for his African Elephant hunts. Plus the Enlglish Longbow Is why we arent posting in french right now. Joel

[alanesq]

I am not an Warbow Fan at all so I have little to say on these Bows ...besides the Fact that they are almost allways Laminated Bows...and do not constitute being called Primitive Weapons at all.....and here is what a good Friend of Mine has to say on these Behemoths...........

Ya know, I regret dropping out of the PA board cause I'd like to tell those douche bags that are into super high weight bows that they have no business on a Primitive Archery board. It goes against the spirit of primitive wud bows: Hunting is in a wooden bows soul, and primitive hunting is all about economy of materials, the artistry of creating a weapon from the Earth, and extending one's reach in an organic way. The heavy English War Bow has no soul what so ever. It is a thing, a brutish man killer made to penetrate armor. Armor isn't an organic thing. It isn't a hide with fur... It's a dead piece of steel and the tools that are designed to kill a "steel animal" are just as lifeless. The modern archer who aches to pull the heaviest weapon possible, is not a hunter. He is a performer and only interested in besting someone else's ability. This is borne from ego, not from hunger or need, which makes it very anti "primitive". My answer to anyone of this ilk that insults someone that is vested in keeping the true spirit of the bow alive is "go to hell!". John Riggs. You can quote me on that.

How extrodinary that people can get so worked up and angry about this ? ? ?
get a grip!

[alanesq]

Alan,
It is not a test of penetration. It is a suitable test of the ability to maintain a rate of fire and a quantifiable degree of accuracy.
Your draw weight is not relevant other than that it should be a weight within your ability to command the bow, maintain a rate of fire and obviously, shoot with some degree of accuracy.

The problem with this would be that it would be normal target archery, so you would find the best bow/arrow/technique for accuracy, as Horrace Ford has already done
This is of no interest to warbow archers

As I say; warbows are different to other forms of archery in that we are also interested in the power of the arrow as well as accuracy

e.g. your suggested test we could just give a 50lb full compass bow to the best target archer in the world and see what score he/she gets