Bad News (long winded idea)

[bowsandroses]

I was looking at the news on this thing this morning (computer) and read one that really upset me. Utah is making complaints over fire arm use on public land. Complaints range from unsafe shooting toward hiking biking trails, destruction of trees and land, The one that I see every where I go that really upsets me, garbage dump shooting, leaving targets, props, shells and other trash laying about, and the big one that really hits hard on me destruction of hieroglyphs. I ranted to my wife over how big of a problem this has become and how I feel we the responsible gun owner shooter is defenseless against the proof stacked against us. She immediately took a defensive and I passed the judgement and ruled every thing she said hear say and repeatedly asked for proof. Soon it became clear to her I was wright if it came down to it we don't have a leg to stand on. I know my family and I as a whole have made it a point to leave areas we camp and or shoot at cleaner than we find it, and family I mean Aunts, Uncles, Cousins all of us. I know there are many others who practice the same discipline. The last two years my wife and I have gotten so upset over the three road ends in the area we hunt that we decided at least one day of the season we would spend not hunting but picking up at the end of the road. We spent two days last year and only got two of three of the roads. One thing however that made my heart feel good is the camp sight near the end of the third road somebody beat us to and it was the worst and they left it spotless. This had to be near a pick up load they even picked up broken bottles and clay pigeon pieces. This Utah story has got me alarmed as they have singled out the gun as the problem not the person. I have an idea however if gun clubs not only advocate responsible behavior but put in a physical action by having public land clean up days and make it known like adopt a mountain day or something maybe it would help us have ground to stand on. Does any club out there already do things like this if so I'm curious as to how it works. and would like to hear your fine folks thoughts on the subject. Hugh

[DC]

The problem with messy people is that they come from all walks of life. We have a favorite campsite that I have been going to for more than 40 years. In the 70's the local chapter of Satan's Choice decided that they were going to have their annual gathering there. There must have been a hundred bikers at least. They did bikers stuff including "burning the Honda" on the main campfire. My family went camping there the following week. We have never seen the place so clean! In about 20 acres I found one Jack Daniels bottle and it was hidden under a log. They held their party there for about 5 years and every year it was the same.
At the same campground we watched a group of kids throw everything, tent, coolers, food and all into the campfire. Then they climbed into their car and left. It took us over an hour to clean it up.

[Aaron H]

Dang kids these days

[Zuma]

The canoe outfitters here on the Shenandoah give
free rental canoes one day a year for river clean-up.
Folks bring in tons of crap.
Zuma
PS A neighbor put up a sign(he adopted the strech of road)
that said "Only trash throws trash"
The county made him remove it.

[Eric Krewson]

We have a nice public range with covered shooting benches, really nice and free to use. Some bozo shot several of the 6X6 treated roof support columns in two a while back. This kind of behavior is a mystery to me, makes about as much sense as burning down your own house during a riot.

[Badger]

  I get so fed up with seeing idiots with guns just shooting everything in sight. I am 100% in favor of gun ownership but I am starting to think that irresponsible behavior with guns should result in loss of privileges. Gun owner etiquette should be a no brainer but it obviously is not. Maybe instead of just hunter safety courses regular etiquette courses every other year might be a good thing. 

[bowandarrow473]

People can be such fools sometimes, but I think we all have to do our best to forgive others shortcomings and try to educate them that this planet is the only one we have and that destroying its forests and rivers and oceans only harms the ecosystem and makes it harder for us and everything else to live. I think we're all guilty of some sin against the environment, the device your using to read this gets its power from a plant that burns coal and releases CO2 into the atmosphere, speeding up the Earth's natural warming cycle by exponential amounts. The trash you just put in the can will be shipped off to a landfill where it will sit for hundreds maybe thousands of years before it finally returns to the ground. So it's really not just people like this, it's all of us, and I think that if we are to survive as a species that some changes need to happen in the next 50 years (preferably now).we have to start thinking about the whole, not just the pieces we can observe at this moment.

[chamookman]

I don't understand the leaving trash wherever You go thing. Here in Michigan, We have a terrible problem of People Icefishing and leaving their trash/junk behind on the ice when they leave. Empty Propane 1lb. bottles - Booze Bottles - food/cigarette wrappers and so on. Good grief - if You can carry it out, You can Damn well tote it back ! Bob

[JW_Halverson]

Our Turkey camp this spring was a perfect example of why nobody comes running up to brag about how wonderful some people are about cleaning their campsites....a week later, no one could tell the grass had even been walked down!!! 

When we do it right, and leave it as we found it, no one thinks anyone has ever been there.  And that should be our goal, leaving the land so everyone things their shoes (or barefeet in Primitive Tim's case) are the first to tread since the moccasin people were last there.  NOBODY says enough about the good things they see done, but EVERYBODY complains about what they see wrong. 

So, I see two ways to support your long winded idea: 
1) Always thank someone you see doing good, never take it for granted.  Positive reinforcement increases the likelihood of a behavior being repeated.  Saying a simple thank you can be immense. 
2) Encourage every organization you join to involve themselves in projects like stream cleanups, trail maintenance, brush hogging, etc.  Take pictures and post positive articles on your social media.  And carry this down to the personal level.  Be seen picking up trash when in public areas, make a game of it with your kids or friends.

I was seen on my hands and knees at Mt Rushmore picking up confetti from the gravel beside a trail.  A little kid asked what the "Ranger" was doing (I was a resource tech, doing weed surveys and mapping mtn pine beetle intrusion).  I looked up and showed the kid what was in my hand.  Told the family that a little bit of paper like that would degrade into the soil eventually, but someone might see it and think it was ok to drop a cigarette butt, then the next person would drop the cigarette pack, and so on and on.  Someone cracked wise about getting paid a hell of a lot to do so little and with barely contained rage I answered, "It's MY lunchbreak and it's MY monument celebrating the best of MY country." And with the family's help we had it done in minutes. 

Thanks for bringing this up, Hugh. It's a subject dear to my heart, if you didn't already know that.

[JoJoDapyro]

Sad to say it, but Utah is full of people who are too good to clean up after themselves. I see it everywhere I go in the outdoors.

[bowsandroses]

JW sounds like you would fit in great with my folks.Well said with very good points. Exactly what we do with are kids and grand kids is involve them in a fun clean up. I have an aunt who has a knack of involving (suckering) kids into doing things many of us can't beat them in to doing . However my primary concern with my post is how gun owners are being blamed for the problem. Not just in Utah but I have verbally heard the same complaint here in central Oregon. Most of the party & camp sights we have cleaned up have plenty of firearm evidence and on the desert it is easy to find lots of shot up appliances and misc. trash. Which has led me to fear that this is another black eye to the gun owner, in which we as a group have left ourselves defenseless. I got to thinking if gun clubs of any kind made public notice of holding trash clean up days it would give gun owners something positive in the public eye. I was wondering if there are any known gun clubs already doing this and or what the opinion of such an idea would be.
On a personal level yes the trash leaving is a huge problem regardless of who left it and agree we should all do our part and try to keep it clean. Which I know there are many of us that do. In fact I believe this is purely another case of a few ruin it for the majority.

[bowsandroses]

Bowandarrow I agree we all need to know how to forgive for sure. Love the person friend or foe hate the action I for one am a big believer in this and try to live by it and forgive myself when I fail. The latter being the hard one for me.

Badger I agree.
JoJo not just a Utah problem it's human error as a whole. I to have done plenty wrong in the past just trying to make up for it in my present.

Erick a mystery for sure if you ever figure it out let the rest of us know.

Zuma exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about our Horse and OHV clubs do similar things here but to my knowledge gun clubs don't.

Falcon my youth mind definitely thought different (less) than my adult mind. Though I know it's not just kids.

DC agreed it is all walks of life not one group more or less guilty than another. I to have been surprised in the past by a group of Bikers and today I have a new found appreciation.

[JoJoDapyro]

Until the littering stop they are never going to have a good image. When I go rock hunting and see everything shot to hell, shells left all over the mountain, anything that can be shot is, that is a problem. Shooters need to speak up to those people who do make a mess for everyone else to clean up.

It is a case of the minority ruining it for the majority.

Utah has an interesting dynamic. It is the only place I know of where camping next to boy scouts is a worse experience than camping next to a bunch of drunks.