Author Topic: question aboute warr bow...  (Read 22179 times)

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Offline akila

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question aboute warr bow...
« on: February 06, 2008, 03:14:36 pm »
Hello i wanna ask you something guys....a friend of mine asked me today iff i could make him an english warr bow , and he want the bow to be 160#@ 32"....do you think its posibile to make such bow from Ash stave??? and i wass hoping that maybe you could point me some dimension to start with...how long the bow should be, widh,thickness....and how much will last a bow like that untill he brokes or something??? this friend of mine he is realy crazy aboute heavy bows...he also build laminate bows but he is not so good with self bows so he asked for my help....i have make a fiew bending trhu the handle bows but nothing so heavy so.....im waiting for your help...thks a lot.

Offline Kegan

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2008, 08:01:30 pm »
I don't know about a full 160#, but an 80" ash bow 1 1/2" wide over most of the length whould be able to yeild as strong a bow as you can tiller out. Heavy bows are hard to reach target weight on the first try though- at least that's been my experience :P.

Offline 1/2primitive

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2008, 08:35:05 pm »
If you have an exceptionally dense stave, you can pull a war bow about 120-130 lb out of it, but if it's a normal piece of Ash.....probably not.
    Sean
Dallas/Fort Worth Tx.

Offline carpenter374

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2008, 09:03:25 pm »
i'd like to see the size a fella that can draw 160-180 at 32 in. i'm a big stout guy and i can shoot about 120 with any control. you're lookin at tearin shoulder and wrist tendons tryin to pull that much weight. be careful and work your way up from lighter draw weights.
"Those who would sacrifice their freedom for safety will find that they will inherit neither." -Ben Franklin     

--Carpenter

Offline akila

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2008, 08:50:17 am »
i'd like to see the size a fella that can draw 160-180 at 32 in. i'm a big stout guy and i can shoot about 120 with any control. you're lookin at tearin shoulder and wrist tendons tryin to pull that much weight. be careful and work your way up from lighter draw weights.
I know whatt you mean but the bow its not for me....i only use bows up to 60# .....this friend of mine use heavy bows so.....this is his problem ;D....he only asked me iff i could make him a 160# bow....theoreticly its posibile i sad to him ,but.....its not that simple whenn you dont have acces to good cality wood,,..

John R

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2008, 12:08:47 pm »
A 160 pound self bow can kill you if it fails. I did one that went off my scale at 140 pounds at 24 inches but took a full draw of 31 inches without any problem, so what the weight was at the 31 is anyone's guess, but that was in hickory. It was 80 inches with a max limb width of a tad more than 2 1/2 inches and a longer upper limb than lower limb. In the same design I self destructed a red oak version and when that sucker exploded it sounded like a gun shot. It broke into 4 pieces, and I never found one of the tip.

Not to be preachy, but if you have to ask that question, please don't attempt to make a bow that heavy. If you don't have a lot of experience with the particular wood and the particular design, you could kill someone experimenting with bows that heavy.

Offline Badger

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2008, 12:26:51 pm »
Thats a good point John, bows are about 75# and even less can be dangerous when they explode. I don't believe in demensions anyway. I think you have to build a bow to the materials you have. Steve

John R

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2008, 01:30:50 pm »
So true Badger. Until deer start wearing armor, a bow that heavy only serves itself. Just casue ya can do something doesn't mean ya should, eh?

Offline akila

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2008, 02:34:30 pm »
So true Badger. Until deer start wearing armor, a bow that heavy only serves itself. Just casue ya can do something doesn't mean ya should, eh?
Good point...but i see quite a fiew boyers that still build bow upt to 100# AND EVEN MORE....

Offline Loki

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2008, 02:57:03 pm »
Quote
So true Badger. Until deer start wearing armor, a bow that heavy only serves itself. Just casue ya can do something doesn't mean ya should, eh?

But not everyone's a hunter,you hunt with a Bow where i live and they'll put you in Jail! Some of us are interested in the Historical aspect of Archery,Bow's are/were not only used for taking game.

Pax
Durham,England

Offline akila

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2008, 03:21:06 pm »
Yess this is the thing here with my friend...wi are live in Romania and here wi cant hunt with the bow...They put you in jail also...but this friend of mine is interestid in historical aspect....this is why he wants a bow like this...the only problem is that i dont think i will be able to make him from ash. :-\...i dont know..maybe iff i could put some backing or something..just to be safe....

John R

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2008, 09:29:39 pm »
Is a narrow round bellied "war bow" made out of ash actually historical? This is where I get kicked out of British bow forums: I'm with Pip Bickerstaffe on this one.. Anyone that's actually tried to build a narrow round bellied ash self bow at a really high weight has gotta come away with the idea that yes, the yew war bows were built the way everyone wants them to look like, but in the secondary woods, and let's use some common sense here, the secondary wood war bows HAD to have been built differently. Pip told me an old English long bow was anything that wasn't a cross bow. Now for those of you that want to jump on me for saying this, I hope the other guys that are on this board will chime in... Try to build a round bellied white ash self bow that won't gain massive string follow or just plain blow up in your face that's even over 80 pounds, let alone 160, and you are wasting your time.. Pardon me for being blunt, but anyone that thinks you can magically make White Ash violate the rules of wud is living in a fantasy land. Please ,prove me wrong, find one member of a British Bow Guild that actually sells a White Ash self bow that's over 100 pounds that follows the 5:8 rule set down buy the British Long bow Society...That's lees than 9 feet long BTW.s
Yup, this is about that time when I get called a yank with a bad attitude and anger management issues.

Offline 1/2primitive

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2008, 12:58:55 am »
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,3835.0.html

John, here is a 90-95 lb Ash bow. Notice in reading that he says he knows someone who makes a 100 lb version from Ash..... I recall him saying that it takes an exceptional piece of wood, and, according to my speculation, no, it can't be made to the same specs as the Yew bows were. It is a less flexible wood, so it needs to be made wider to withstand the stress of bending. But nonetheless, a war bow can be made of Ash. Just not up to 160 lb.
     Sean
Dallas/Fort Worth Tx.

John R

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2008, 02:08:09 am »
Yup, absolutely, make them wider and flatter so you're working within the particular wood's limits. I guess where I get upset is this stubborn notion that a heavy secondary wood ELB must fit a particular design based on "tradition". A perfect example of this can be found by googling English Longbow or long bow. A group of bow companies pop up. Go to any of the ones that are based across the ocean and you find trilaminates, and bows that are backed, made of woods that aren't native to Europe or the UK such as hickory.. Hickory isn't a European wood BTW. I'm a simple guy and think that since there is sooo much good available ash, white oak, elm and other woods that are Eurpean type trees, and since there are so many great bow makers out there, there must be a good reason why there aren't tons of heavy weight secondary self war bow for sale. There's a huge market just waiting for heavy weight secondary wood war bow replicas... Huge. They are simple bows, the wood is available, and plenty of skilled bow makers... And a huge potential customer base. It's a conspiracy I tell ya... It's all based on the perceived notion of what the actual bows must look like not what they really looked like. This ultimate perfect specimen of ultra high density white ash that made one or two bows doesn't wash. When tens of thousands of heavy weight self, secondary white wood bows were needed, did they really have the opportunity to search the country side for the perfect stave? I'll say it... I will always believe that the heavy secondary wood bows looked more like big flat bows... Why not? Is flattening a bow's belly really that huge of a technological jump?

Offline Badger

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Re: question aboute warr bow...
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2008, 04:27:58 am »
      a year ago I would have agreed with you guys. But I have readjust my thinking on this. I have found that yew bows will accomplish a design with typicaly less mass weight than many other woods which would translate into better cast, but not by a very big margin. last year I made several bows over 100# and 32" draws, nearly all of them were elb style. None of them were shot enough to be thourouhgly tested as I cant draw that much. so instead I just gave them good workouts on the tiller tree and monitored the results. But from what I can tell nearly any hardwood with reasonably good compression characteristecs can make a good shooting elb. Maple, red oak, ash, hickory, elm, cedar hornbeam, and no doubt many others. I don't think the strain on an elb is any greater than with any other bow design. It has a bendy handle which really relieves the rest of the limbs tremendously. regardless of the wood if the length and draw weight is the same I will just build them to the same mass weight from any wood. A 76" 150# elb I would build at 41 oz, it would automaticaly become an elb with a 5/8 ratio using that mass figure. Steve