Author Topic: White Pine  (Read 9693 times)

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Offline kayakfisher

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White Pine
« on: January 26, 2008, 01:22:59 pm »
I bought some white pine the other day to do some long over due honey do chores. When I got home I noticed  how perfect the grain is in this piece of wood.As I sit here and type this I am asking myself exactly what purpose did I by this particular board. { Help Ive been infected with bow building Disease]It is the text book example for board stave's however you never hear of pine bows.
The river of life twist and bends, you never know whats around the next bend till your there

Springfield Mo home of  Kids,Tomato's and Tornado's

Offline snedeker

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2008, 01:28:16 pm »
Some early European mesolithic speciments and American SW prehistoric bows are of pine.  The one guy in Bowyers Bible Ii talks about making one, but it has to be about 3" wide. 

Offline Hillbilly

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 02:58:49 pm »
Your pine board isn't bow wood, but straight-grained white pine makes excellent arrows. That's why you bought it.  ;D
Smoky Mountains, NC

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Progress might have been all right once but it's gone on for far too long.

John R

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 07:59:55 pm »
White pine is really brittle compared to other conifers. Unfortunately one of the best pines for bow wood was ripped form us during WWII: Scots Pine happens to be an awesome tough wood, especially it's heart wood. Now days in North America it grows like a banzai tree, all twisty and messed up. What happened was back in the day, the gov'ment wanted to propagate it as a lumber wood because it's such an outstanding lumber tree, but the people who were gathering seed for the process of propagating the species got lazy and duh, gathered the easy cones... From the short goofy trees. Hence, we now have a bunch of scabby little trees thanks to a screwed up breeding program. In Europe, they didn't screw with the population and scots pines still grow in their proper form.. Tall, straight and usable for lumber or bows. As a climber for a tree service, white pines were fun because they get tall, but they are also kind of scary. I've actually taken a handsaw to a healthy branch on a take down, and with three quick swipes on the upper side, have had the branch crack and drop... With Scots Pines on the other hand, even with a face cut on the bottom side of a limb, we have to cut through almost every fiber with the back cut to make the branch come down. They are that tough.

Offline kayakfisher

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 09:16:46 pm »
Thats very interesting information thanks,I learned something.
The river of life twist and bends, you never know whats around the next bend till your there

Springfield Mo home of  Kids,Tomato's and Tornado's

Offline DanaM

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 09:48:51 pm »
Hmmm when you say scots pine do you mean scotch pine? All I see of them are Christmas trees.
"Prosperity is a way of living and thinking, and not just money or things. Poverty is a way of living and thinking, and not just a lack of money or things."

Manistique, MI

John R

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 10:23:56 pm »
Pinus sylvestris, Scots Pine, Scotch Pine, same deal. Common names can trip ya up cause they aren't uniform. They were brought over here, and yup we see them as Christmas trees. Picture a big well shaped picture book pine tree.. That's what they should look like, and in Europe along with other places in their home range that's what they look like.  John

John R

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2008, 10:27:03 pm »
I forgot to add an important detail: The only thing I call scotch comes in a bottle. Everything else is Scots.

Offline DanaM

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2008, 10:27:28 pm »
 ;D ;D ;D
"Prosperity is a way of living and thinking, and not just money or things. Poverty is a way of living and thinking, and not just a lack of money or things."

Manistique, MI

Offline kayakfisher

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2008, 10:45:07 pm »
Well I dont know done some research think there is a difference between Scot and Scotch pine enclosed photo of scot pine

[attachment deleted by admin]
The river of life twist and bends, you never know whats around the next bend till your there

Springfield Mo home of  Kids,Tomato's and Tornado's

Offline Hillbilly

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2008, 12:03:55 am »
Didn't Comstock write something about one of the Neolithic European bow artifacts being made of Scots pine?
Smoky Mountains, NC

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Progress might have been all right once but it's gone on for far too long.

nailbender

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2008, 12:21:49 am »
 Yes, he did. He said scotch pine was used before yew was growing in Europe.

Offline medicinewheel

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2008, 04:05:41 am »

chris (my friend who won BOY/laminated category) told me about a guy he met latly how had made several nice bows from pine; i'll try to get more info, maybe pictures.
sami people from northern scandinavia made compositbows of pine compressionwood and birch.
frank
Frank from Germany...

a finnish native

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2008, 09:26:22 am »
the sami bows were from your average pine, but it did not grow in an average place or position. and they live also in finland and russia so not just scandinavia. anyway the wood that they used was pine indeed, but of a special sort, you see pine sucks in compression, but they used the type of wood that we call lyly mänty (mänty=pine). the tree had to grow on the shoreline of a lake, river, swamp etc. and it had to be growing "above" the lake. so it had to be tilted above the water naturally and not by human hands, and they used to take the stave from the water side of the tree.
I see that the species we have here and what the sami must have used is scots pine. (does not grow naturally in north america) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_Pine

John R

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Re: White Pine
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2008, 12:40:24 pm »
Don't let common names trip ya up: If I said what is Ironwood, some guys would say Hop Horn beam. They would be right, but they would also be wrong because Ironwood is a common name that's used to describe Hop Horn Beam, Blue Beech, along with a bunch of other species. The deal with whether it's Scots Pine or Scotch Pine doesn't matter anymore than if you called it "Bob's Tree". To be accurate, use it's proper name: Pinus silvestri. It's a tree that isn't native to North America but it was brought over here just like dandelions or gypsy moths, stuff gets moved around. Another good example of getting confused over tree species is the cedars... Thujas or Juniperus.. Red cedar, white cedar, true red cedar, eastern white ceder, northern white cedar, it all can get confusing unless you start getting into the habit of using Genus and species. That's a cool photo of a Scots Pine but be careful not to view an individual growing under certain conditions and apply the morphology to an entire population. A case in point is the difference in form between an maple growing in a field and an maple growing in a dense forest. Any tree will grow up given competition versus spreading in an open area.

From experience as a climber for a tree service along with doing a bit of logging on the side in an area that has white pines, red pines, scots pines (P. silvestri), norway pines (gotcha, they are the same as red pines), along with a lot of other conifers, I feel a lot safer working  the scots pines as they are as tough as a lot of hardwoods.