otzi the iceman replica bow (yew no sap)

[rockrush69]

okay guys I have a challenging Build ahead of me I am friends with Dave at Medicine Bow woods in Washingtonhe has a few Northwest Pacific Yew staves that were trees that split and somehow are only heart wood .... he has challenged me to make an otzi replica style yew wood bow. he is friends with a professor who was involved in the group thathad something to do with The Iceman himself and all of the artifacts directly so he said he is going to email me a bunch of pictures measurements and other things of the Yew bow stave that otzi was found near ... (I am aware that it is very controversial and that some people believe that it was in fact a finished bow I am going to try to meet in the middle) I was wondering if anyone had any tips for meI know that this type of wood can be tricky and that's with sapwood on! :-( so this is going to be a major challenge to say the least dave told me that the style is basically like a Cherokee d BoW ... chase a ring .. eliptical/rectangular cross-section bend through the handle or full compass style,,, the only video I could find on youtube what's by sHawn woods and the bow he built had sapwood and was not full compass Also bows from that time typically had no knock on the lower limb ? Only on the top limb all of my BOws that I make have knocks on both limbs but I always make my string one loop and I tie it on the bottom limbso if anyone has any tips or advice or if anyone has any facts that I am missing or any pictures would be greatly greatly appreciated I am going to take my time on this one this is a free stave being sent to me as a challenge I do not want to look like a fool :-) So com on del and the rest of you elb guys.  HELP

[tattoo dave]

Sounds good. I've never messed with yew, so I have no advice for you. But I'm looking forward to seeing the finished bow! Good luck with it, and keep us posted, with some pics!

Tattoo Dave

[rockrush69]

I habe had two yew staves.  Ever.  ... one blew up on the tiller tree in three places all across the stave.  And one is a fine elb that my dad owns and hunts mule deer with in texas.  But it was a rounded belly . Elb style with the sapwood left on and in tact . And for insurance i backed it with linen. 65#@28" it took me like a week of 8 hr days of scrape sand stare repeat lol . But this one without the sapwood and chasing a ring on yew .... tight tight rings . Uugghhhh . Gonn be rough . . . But then theres the whole researching part to even find out what to copy its hard to find out with was the common no sapwood on the back yew longbow used in otzi s area I guess the Italian Alps 5300 years agoso I really hope this large group of awesome people on this website can help me research this and come up with some pictures and some information I know they will belonging to primitive Archer is like immediately having a bunch of big brothers

[BobbyO]

Here's a site that has lots of info and measurements about Otzi's bow. You don't have to join the site to access the .pdf download of 7 pages. There is a box at the right side with the download arrow. Bob

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/215832996_2006_Otzi's_Bow_._Published_in_._2006

[GlisGlis]

That pdf is very informative and interesting.
The theory about the bow being unfinished looks pretty convincing
However i'd compare Otzi bow with more contemporary bows than Mary Roses
In particular for a replica I'd study the schnidejoch bow that is geographically very very close to the Otzi one and also almost  perfectly the same period.
You may also find useful to look at Nydam bows
Even tough they are more distant in miles and time from Otzi they are still much more closer then ELBs

Another info that may be interesting is that analysis showed that the bow was covered with blood. (i never found if fully or not)
Someone hypothesizes it could be to waterproof the wood.
The other option is that blood is from Otzi bleeding from the shoulder wound

Anyway I'm really interested in the outcome so please public alot of pictures of the making

[WillS]

Remember that the otzi bow was inside out.  The D cross section is rounded for a belly where you'd usually put the back.

There are CAT scans of the bow online somewhere.  Nobody's ever managed to pull it off however, so good luck

Draw weight should be around 160#, considering the almost identical measurements to Mary Rose bows and the fact it was good quality alpine yew.  With American yew at the same measurements you'll probably lose about 60# so aim for 100#.

[bambule]

I think the bow from Ötzi was about 50# - 60# drawweight at max. 28" more like 26". He was not a very tall man and I think for a hunter with short distance hunting shoots a bow with 60# is ok. When you  take a look at the arrows you can see that they are no war arrows which were needed with a high poundage bow. Stone tips are too soft for war arrows.
They highly crowned back comes from a small branch or sapling of yew which is much more easy to work down to bow than a stave from a big tree. Almost easier to dry than a big stave - the bow was new an not yet finished.
Just my 2 cent...

Greetz
Cord

[WillS]

Good points - doesn't work with the actual bow however!

The stave is of almost identical measurements to the MR bows, from almost identical timber.  Either it wasn't finished, in which case you could apply common sense and go for a 60# weight (but would no longer be making a replica) or you simply make a replica.  A replica of the bow found with him would be well over 100# based purely on dimensions and wood type.

The CAT scan of the bow shows the rings the wrong way round.  They are curving away from the back, not the belly.

[WillS]

Here's the scan of the bow, showing the ring orientation, taken from Steve Strattons thread on PP.






As you can see, it's from a large diameter tree, not a sapling, and is deliberately switched to be the wrong way round.  Why? No idea!  But a replica should incorporate these features otherwise it will just be another yew longbow!

[Del the cat]

I've never made an unbacked heartwood Yew bow.
I'd suggest a coarse ringed Yew might be easier (that scan suggest the same), as you could follow a ring for the back. Following might not be too tricky, if you just aim for roughing out (drawknife/spokeshave) getting lines running along the back rather than necessarilly actually "following" a ring (if you see what I mean).
Even with fine rings it may not be too bad as Yew is soft to work with.
My best advice is make long...long and longer than you think. You can cut it shorter if you need once you can see how it's tillering an if it's taking set.
Maybe even go for V thin sapwood back.
Or maybe it was that sort of neither heart nor sap that you get. I've had staves where it went, bark, thin white layer, darker layer, whiter layer then definite heart wood. I think that sort of stave tends to be a bit soft and rubbery... better than brittle and exploding.
There's a pic at the bottom of this post...
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/reinvigorated.html

I did have someone want me to make an Otzi bow, but I didn't have a suitable stave and didn't fancy unbacked heartwood.... lot of effort to have it go bang! So I bottled it
I like to try interesting designs... not foolhardy ones!
Del

[GlisGlis]

Otzi was 1.6 m tall (5.2 feet) and the bow was 1.82 m (5.97 feet) so maybe unbacked back was not an issue.
I doubt his drawlenght could be more than 24/25"

[Del the cat]

Otzi was 1.6 m tall (5.2 feet) and the bow was 1.82 m (5.97 feet) so maybe unbacked back was not an issue.
I doubt his drawlenght could be more than 24/25"

Good point, you need to factor in draw length. I wouldn't fancy drawing it 30" 
Del

[Carson (CMB)]

Cool Thread. I will be watching this one.

[IdahoMatt]

Cool Thread. I will be watching this one.

+1

[ajbruggink]

The chapter 'Ancient European Bows' by Paul Comstock in TBB vol. II, discusses the yew heartwood bows and how to make replicas. Comstock describes two methods of how to do it though I'm not sure what the difference is between them so I can't explain them both. Basically, its removing the sapwood and making the rings appear as straight lines on the back of the bow, I don't how to explain it any better. I'd like to experiment this myself but time is not my best friend right now. Comstock said he built a 67" long, 60 lb draw English Longbow with this method and it followed the string 1 1/2", even after being strung up for 24 hours after bracing for the first time! So the method does the work. Hope this helped at least somewhat.

Aaron