Tri Lamination Warbow help

[wiking]

Hi guys

First post haha go easy on me, been shooting warbows for a while and always wanted to make my own.
Iv got an ash stave for a selfbow im making but I want to ask for some help with Tri lam warbows.

I want to make a 100#32 tri-lam and one 75#32 tri-lam.
For the woods used i want to use native european trees and want to use an Ash back, Beech core, and european Oak belly.
Iv never heard much about Oak bellys, some seem hate it and some think it would be good, what do you guys think? do you have an alternative?
also what should the thicknesses of each of the laminations be?

thanks for the help, Iv only shot self warbows so i have no example to go off of.

[Del the cat]

Only European Oak bow I've seen was a flat bow that had an awful chrysalled belly.
The main reason for building a laminated bow (Other than timber availability) is so that you can use appropriate woods for the laminations, which I'm not sure you are doing.
Sorry if this sounds negative, I'm not into laminates and maybe my prejudice is showing

How much bow making have you done? I don't think a warbow is a good start point.
Del

[mikekeswick]

Del is right forget that combo for an elb it won't work very well at all. The oak will almost certainly chrysal....i've tried! Oak will work for a bow BUT you need a wood that is weak in tension to back it with and you must use a flat belly.
You need something dense/great in compression for the belly of 32 inch draw elb's.
If it had to be native i'd go with hornbeam/yew belly and an ash back with anything for a core.
You just won't have much joy trying to find planked quality native timber for a lam bow. 

I strongly suggest you get some ipe (Silva Timber), some maple for a core and either ash/hickory/bamboo for the back. I can help you with contacts for all the above.
Once you have your wood sorted then you can think about thicknesses.

[Benedikt]

If you want an european wood as belly, you could try european hornbeam (catrpinus betulus), pretty pressure-resistant wood.

[wiking]

Yea well i sort of thought that about the oak which is why i asked, so thanks for the Hornbeam suggestions guys ill look into that.
for me yew is too good to be wasted on a lam bow
plus i want to do something different than the standard combos that have been done hundreds of times before like hickory, purpleheart, lemonwood ect.

so going with a Ash back, Beech core, and Hornbeam belly, what would be approximate thicknesses for the laminations??
Iv read somewhere on here that the back and core lams both end up being 1/8 thick most of the time? and obviously the belly gets tillered for the desired draw weight.

thanks for the help guys

[Del the cat]

Sometimes you'll find Yew with damaged or rotten sapwood. Or stuff that's too bent/twisted etc for say a longbow but which is fine for bellies.
Del

[mikekeswick]

Sometimes you'll find Yew with damaged or rotten sapwood. Or stuff that's too bent/twisted etc for say a longbow but which is fine for bellies.
Del

Exactly right, most of our yew is useless (or close!) for self longbows but a reasonable amount of that is fine for laminates eg. you cut a straight board out of it then back it with something to get back the tension integrity.
Elm may also work for a belly and you actually have a chance of finding it in board form 
Dimensions will vary depending on what wood you acquire. Once you've got your wood then we can help more with dimensions.
How many longbows have you made?

[wiking]

yea of course if you have pieces like that available its fine but unfortunatly i dont.

ah okay i was actually wondering about elm, is that wytch elm youre talking about? how does it compare to Hornbeam for backing?
I can get a lot of these woods in plank form, like 100mm or wider in a range of thicknesses starting at 26mm and going up, length is also no problem.
so what do you mean by ''Dimensions will vary depending on what wood you acquire.'', if i already know what kind of wood i wish to get?
I havnt made any yet these will be my first attempts, i dont mind failing, its a learning process and evereyone starts somewhere, i dont want to start by making other types of bows either

thanks for the help guys

[Ian.]

I really wouldn't even both using those woods. You don't really learn anything from a bow failing due to poor wood, best bow maker in the world could't make it work. Where are you in the world? Some places can find good common woods but it will be much cheaper and rewarding for you to use good material from the start. The only thing we can tell you for certain is dimensions are less important than physical weight, use Badgers mass calculator and minus about 3oz for a warbow, don't start tillering until you are at that weight.

[mikekeswick]

Yes I know that woodyards will have them listed as being available but you need perfectly straight grain to try and hit those weights. I spent the last few years making mainly elb's (as a business) and well know the problems you are going to run into  I've been to pretty much ever good hardwood yard in the country over the years. A lot of them talk the talk over the phone! I'm just trying to give you a bit of a heads up here not trying to put you off....if you stick at it long enough you'll get there but bear in mind that you are starting off by making it very hard for yourself. 
Wych elm is probably one of the better elms. I've used a lot of small leaf and wych.
If I had to use native hardwoods for a 100# @ 32 bow it would be an ash back, cherry/oak core and a hornbeam belly but as I said getting it is the problem.
A backing of 3/16th - 1/4 inch
Core of 1/8th
Belly of 1 inch
It would be 1 1/4 wide for the center 24 inches. From there I would start a taper to 1 inch wide 12 inches from the nocks and from there to 5/8ths wide at the nock.

[wiking]

haha thanks for the heads up i know what you mean oh i dont mind making it hard for myself
Okay thanks for the information, much appreciated!
By the way do you have a website or something from your business?