tradgedy is about to strike!

[agd68]

Hey all. My wife and I have been trad archers for over 20 yrs and heavily involved in Bow Hunter education, 3 D shoots and have run an archery club for several years. NB has recently allowed xbows in our hunting season and many clubs up here are having the same dilemma. I used to be a trad purist but when my daughter gave me a recurve xbow I learned a few things. Other than a few minor advantages there is not much difference between an xbow and the conventional bow. They can both be as limited as a stick with a string relying on the archers skill and practice or as high tec as the new componds bows /xbows with telescopic range finding sights, shock reducers and stabilizers.
 What is important is that we are all archers and should stand together. Having run a club I know that it is true that often it comes down to the all mighty dollar. Rents may need to be paid, insurance, league fees or just maintain club targets and equipment. Some clubs just cant make a go of it being a single discipline group.More members = more operating funds.

[chamookman]

I've been sitting back trying real hard not to reply on this  - but I can't take it anymore. Cross things DO NOT belong in Archery seasons - pure and simple. They belong in the Firearm season. Feel the same way concerning Archery clubs. My .02 - Bob.

[Pappy]

Yep,what Bob said. 
   Pappy

[Buffalogobbler]

Here in NY they allowed them into the last two weeks of the archery season just this past year,
 but you need a muzzleloader tag to hunt with them!

Kevin

[Badly Bent]

I agree with Bob as well, a modern crossbow is not archery in my opinion and has no place in a primitive weapons season. Here we enjoy a 3 1/2 month  ARCHERY deer season and one concern I have is that
one day they will start pecking away days off of our PRIMITIVE weapons season. And as far as allowing them on an archery range, well I feel they should be shot at the gun range. Cocked, locked, stock and trigger is not a bow so lets not pretend it is and allow it to be treated as such. Again JMHO.

[JEB]

agd68, I respect your opinion but hardly agree that a crossbow is similar to a conventional bow.

Only two things are similar and they are a string and a arrow referred to as a bolt.

Any weapon that has a scope, a trigger, a safety (only in some cases) ,a stock and is shot from the shoulder like a rifle is hardly like archery equipment.

We will see what takes place next month.  As JW suggested I am trying to get my hands on the bylaws and constitution to review.

Something that probably bothers me most is that our young are not being taught archery.  I am lucky to have gotten my grandkids into traditional shooting.

[Tyke]

Primitve cross bows were not shouldered or scoped just saying

[agd68]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convert anyone. All archers enjoy their chosen style. Personally I don't like compou'nds, but, I have at least shot them. Have any of you guys ever shot a crossbow. Yes modern cross bows are pretty hitech. Crossbows have been around since the days of the Greek and Roman Empires. I'm pretty sure Julius Caesar's army didn't have telescopic sights. A primitive crossbow with no sights and gizmos is as challenging to master as a bow.
And no, a crossbow is not a gun, nowhere near it. All the gadgets and gizmos don't matter at all. It is the bolt that does the killing and they do it the same way an arrow does. Same limitations as an arrow has too. like them or not is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, just don't hate what you don't understand. If you haven't tried one before try it, you might find they are not the big evil you think they are.

[chamookman]

I have shot them - not impressed at all. Just like compounds, they have brought a certain element to Archery, that I call "Instant Archers" - something I personally think We could have done without. Bob

[mullet]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to convert anyone. All archers enjoy their chosen style. Personally I don't like compounds, but, I have at least shot them. Have any of you guys ever shot a crossbow. Yes modern cross bows are pretty hi tech. Crossbows have been around since the days of the Greek and Roman Empires. I'm pretty sure Julius Caesar's army didn't have telescopic sights. A primitive crossbow with no sights and gizmo's is as challenging to master as a bow.
And no, a crossbow is not a gun, nowhere near it. All the gadgets and gizmo's don't matter at all. It is the bolt that does the killing and they do it the same way an arrow does. Same limitations as an arrow has too. like them or not is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, just don't hate what you don't understand. If you haven't tried one before try it, you might find they are not the big evil you think they are.

Aww, come on. Are you trying to convince me or yourself. I built one in Shop Class in High School before lawyers got popular and have shot quite a few. Even bought my wife a #70 for Christmas I could borrow and carry in my truck at work. It's not a bow,, it's not even close to being a Cross bow. My neighbor got his Doctor to sign off on a Handicap Permit so he could hunt with one in Florida during archery season because he was fat and lazy. After awhile he told me it was so loud he just took a rife in the stand instead. The lease was well off of the road.

 I think that's why the majority of the people shoot and hunt with them, they are lazy. And looking for more ways to shoot a deer because they are too lazy to put in the time to scout and learn how to shoot bows, practice shooting bows, and learning how to hunt.

The bolt kills no different then a .22 bullet, you still have to be able to hit what you are shooting at. No different then the short lived arrow with the .357 head on the end. The companies have to keep coming out with new Gadgets every year for all of the lazy hunters. And, that's my 2 cents worth.

[agd68]

Mullet I am not talking about a modern crossbow, A primitive crossbow without the sights and gadgets. And if you are trying to say a crossbow bolt kills like a bullet you don't know what your talking about.

[Josh B]

This old debate ....again?  Lol!  I grew up with a guy that was always looking to game the system in some way or another.  He shot up with steroids to get the edge in sports. High school sports mind you.  He thought up all kinds of imaginative ways to cheat on exams. He would tell girls outrageous lies about their boyfriends to break em up and then slide in to catch em on the rebound.  When it came to hunting and fishing he was even worse.  One of his favorite tricks was the old arrow down the .410 barrel.  He would unabashedly brag about his monster bucks and how long his shots were when he "arrowed" them.  Then turn around and defend his unethical behavior with the same rhetoric that is used to defend the use of crossbows today.  Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with crossbows in general.  The only hitch in my giddy up about crossbows is trying to pass them off as the same as archery.  If you want to avoid the time and effort of learning how to be an actual archer and use a crossbow, no problem here. Providing that you use it during muzzleloader season.  On a side note, I also believe that scopes and inline rifles have no place in muzzleloader season and should only be allowed during the regular firearms season.  Folks that seek to cheat with technology are cheating themselves more than anything.   I suspect that whatever success they gain by doing things the easy way deteriorate into hollow victories pretty quick.  That's no way to build memories.  Just my .02
Josh

[mullet]

Doc, you said it a little better then I did. Adam, I don't know what I'm talking about? When I saw the first crossbow used on a Bow only hunt in 1984 I saw a guy sneak a crossbow in and kill a 200#+ Boar hog at 150 yards with a scope. At that range, he shot it in the ass and the bolt came out it's chin. This hog was over six feet long, do you think one of your Warbows is accurate enough to do that? How many Crossbow shooters do you know that are hunting with primitive, historical accurate crossbows? I bet, maybe 3 out of 3000. If you hit a deer in the heart or lungs I'd pretty much bet it will fall dead. If I could throw a rock hard enough to do it I bet it would work. Like I said, you don't have to try and convince me.

 I really liked the laws in Penn when they separated muzzleloading season into two categories, MUZZLELOADING and modern in-line. Personally, I think Crossbows would be okay on private property if you were truly handicapped, management areas I'd say no. Too many people scamming the system to kill their first deer.

[agd68]

Mullet, You have made the same point I have been trying to make. I agree that a modern crossbow is a technological light year away from a longbow , but then so is a tricked out compound. My opinion has been based on a trad/ primitive recurve crossbow. And yes I know many more people will take a modern one over the practice required to become good with a primitive one, but again the same is true for compound bows. I also agree that the modern crossbow and compounds should not be allowed in a primitive season

[agd68]

All this hoopla over crossbows got me to thinking today and I couldn't help but laugh. Do you suppose around 30,000 BC a group of Neolithic hunters were sitting around grumping about the fat lazy buggers that were starting to use these little spear launching stick and string things.