Mark Stretton 200lb Guinness World Record blog

[WillS]

Will, The point is that the bow is still held at virtual maximum extension for a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if a bow starts dropping weight with every second at an even shorter draw than we think.
 If you get a bow to 31 inches and then spend an extra four seconds getting the last inch it can't be beneficial.
  Looking at the pics it's hard to see definitively but it looks like full draw is reached while pointing at the ground, lost a bit on the way up and regained again.

Can't disagree with that.  It's obviously very hard to see, so hard to analyse from a computer!

I'm trying to avoid getting dragged into this, because at this stage there's nothing new being said or revealed, but I think it's worth mentioning that ( in my opinion ) we're not gonna know anything new until somebody turns up and equals or beats Joes world records using a non-rolling loose. 

As it stands (and I said this recently on a different forum) it's the method used exclusively by the guys setting world records.  They don't use it for any other type of shooting (as you can see in the first vid of Joe shooting half a dozen, he's not using it there) so its not used to make certain weights usable. 

Currently all the records set by English warbows have been set while using the rolling loose.  It seems odd to me that guys like Joe and Mark who have been shooting incredibly heavy bows since they were kids would adopt such an extreme, physical way of shooting if there was no proof it worked.  They've chosen to learn it and use it for a reason.  I think it's hard to ignore that. 

We can sit on a forum all day and debate whether its useless or damages bows etc but these guys are out there rewriting history books while using it and until somebody proves you can beat the records NOT using it, it would be potentially daft to claim that it isn't necessary.

[PatM]

Are ALL the weight classes held with it as well? I'd want to know if  their ability to pull weights nobody else can is more of a factor.
  Has universal acceptance of FF string material been achieved? I thought there was some sort of quibble with  the American association still having to use natural material string.
 Do you have the records for both sides of the pond?

[HoorayHorace]

Would it not make sense to use a natural period string and not a modem day material?

I've made a few linen and sinew strings.

How log has that guy in the video been shooting bows then? I've done some research on him and can't find too much 

How is he so strong?

[WillS]

That I don't know Pat.  I also think your point is very important - at the moment, there are very few who can shoot the weight Joe does, so that may be the reason he's at the top of the distance tables.  My point was that all we know right now (hence why all the online debates are somewhat moot) is that he set his records while using the rolling loose.  It could be a load of rubbish, but we need to have side by side comparison with static looses to know.  Until then, this topic just circles over and over again.  Blacksmith77k went to great lengths to help towards this last month on a different forum, but I'm not sure even the video evidence made the non-believers change their mind. 

I guess the way to answer your question is to ask somebody who was at every record attempt.  If they can verify that the rolling loose was used throughout the weights, that may go some way towards a better understanding.

The records for the English society is on the website, not sure about the others. 

Strings - there's an important article on its way regarding strings (and something else massively overlooked but now focused on within the EWBS) and that will be out soon.  It may even be on the website now, I can't remember if Chris put a link to it yet or its still being sorted.  Either way, anybody who thinks the strings could only support light bows are gonna need a new topic to argue about!  I know that doesn't answer your question - sorry! -  but I think more people are leaning towards natural strings, and I imagine they definitely will soon. 

[PatM]

  Nobody is suggesting the strings couldn't support the bows but it's about time that bit of authenticity was addressed.

[HoorayHorace]

I read recently that the MR arrows had fine nocks and were suited to primitive hunting bows of about 70lb. 200lb would need rope for a string   

[WillS]

  Nobody is suggesting the strings couldn't support the bows but it's about time that bit of authenticity was addressed.

It's been addressed, and will be released soon.  The guys behind it are just a bit wary of bringing it out too early, as there are apparently people who will be claiming it as their own research, so they need to tie it down first before publishing.

The tests have all been done.  Shouldn't be more than a couple of months now.

[Lucasade]

If the flight records are set with a standardised arrow as the EWBS uses then one would expect that all other things being equal the heavier bow will chuck the arrow further. A possible exception would be a superb lighter bow versus a dog of a heavier bow, but as Joe Gibbs has a reputation as a fine bowyer I don't think that variable applies here.

Also it appears that 200lbs is the limit of physical ability to shoot and Joe seems to be able to handle more than almost anyone else (did I see he's shooting 190lbs at times?) so it looks to me like his records may well stand until the arrow changes.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it doesn't really matter how Joe Gibbs shoots a bow for flight shooting because other variables than the loose may be dominant. If a rolling loose however performed makes him feel better then it will improve his shot, but correlation is not the same as causation.

[WillS]

Joe has shot over 200lbs, but not on record.  I think you're partly right though.  We won't know, that's the problem

[PatM]

 Can you tell us anything about how Alistair outshoots Joe in flight despite using a much lighter bow than Joe can handle?

[mikekeswick]

All this 'we won't know until somebody else can shoot the same weight' etc...is all a load of cobblers. Why not just try it with a lighter bow? A group of shooters so you aren't getting just one answer?
I'll say it again - No other flight shooters use this method. A bow held at full draw loses weight. A bow drawn quickly GAINS weight. If we have two bows of the same physical weight and one draws 100# and one draws 110# which is the best bow (all other things being equal)?
That's all i'm saying and they are facts. If those statements don't say something to you about the 'rolling loose' then I give up.

[OTDEAN]

I think guys in the EWBS are wrapped in their own dogma like the rolling loose and nothing will change their minds that it does what they say it does for range, I reckon its just dogma to make it look more sexy.

I couldn't imagine fellas during the War of the Roses in a bow line at Towton shooting bows 100lbs plus prancing around like nancy's doing some rolling dance to get some extra yardage on range.  The opposite forces would probably have pissed tha sens laughing.

[Lucasade]

I can't imagine you could get off 12 arrows a minute if you're spending 4 seconds each shot waving the bow around at basically full draw either - that's 48 seconds!

[WillS]

It's like a brick wall in here.

Nobody seems to have got the basic idea that this WASN'T used during war.  This is a completely modern method designed by modern archers using 170lb bows. 

Nobody is claiming it was used in the middle ages, nobody is claiming it helps you shoot heavier bows and nobody is claiming it's faster.

It was the only method used to break world records.  That's all anybody knows.

They weren't shooting to break records in the middle ages.  They didn't need to shoot beyond about 200 yards, whereas with the same equipment the rolling loose is being used to break 300 yards.

By the way Mike, it has been tested with a lighter bow.  Michael Heinz made a video testing it.  The rolling loose added 50 feet when using a 22lb bow, compared to a static release.  But like I said, once the video came out all the guys clamouring that the rolling loose is rubbish went quiet and stopped talking about it.

[Lucasade]

I was being facetious there sorry.