Amrican elm types?

[HoorayHorace]

I'm sort of confused about the types of elm we have in the US. Which is the best species for a longbow/d bow? Do we get Wych Elm?

[PatM]

Rock elm is the strongest but the variability of the regular American Elm often has it falling in the same strength capacity.
 Winged Elm is also said to be very strong.
  Red Elm is not as strong.
   Some of the lesser know species are downright brittle I believe.
 Various species are also naturalised or at least available. Wych Elm is likely one of them.
 Various hybrids with Eurasian Elms have been developed in an effort to combat Dutch Elm disease but these aren't likely to be encountered randomly in the woods.
 Contrary to popular belief American Elm does not hybridise  without human intervention.
 American Elm is likely the best option based on it's wide availability and consistency of wood quality.

[Jim Davis]

Pat, those terms are a little indistinct, especially since there are three or four American elms that are known in some areas as red elm.

According to the Forest Products Laboratories of  the Dept. of Agriculture, the red elm that, with a list of other names, is known as winged elm, is the strongest, edging out the elm that is known in some areas as rock elm.

That's convenient, since winged elm is probably the easiest to identify.

[PatM]

I'm trying to use them in the actual correct botanical way. By Red Elm I mean Slippery Elm as that does seem to be the one that has  cornered the name in a more widely accepted way.
 Never heard of Winged Elm being called that but I don't live where it grows.

 Hard to say how many specimens they test to arrive at their data.
 As suspected other sources dispute the strength numbers of various properties. A comparison of the two on the Wood Data base shows this with Rock elm being ahead on crushing strength and having a higher SG but lower in a few others.
 You can scroll down this page and see data for a variety of types.
 http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/rock-elm/
 

[JackCrafty]

I would use American elm or elm that does NOT have red heartwood.  Lumberyards that carry "American elm" will hopefully show you boards that do not have drastically contrasting heartwood/sapwood.

Other names for American elm:  White Elm, Water Elm, Soft Elm, or Florida Elm.

[GB]

It is confusing to me as far as the distinctions between the elms.  My Trees of Wisconsin book refers to red elm as slippery elm as Pat has said.  I've only used it in board form and was disappointed in it as belly wood, especially after hearing so many good things about elm wood in general.  I had one bow chrysal in one spot and the other took a lot of set and just isn't snappy at all.  It has beautiful grain, looks great stained, but is very light.  I used it as a backer on erc, and made a good bow that took very little set and have also used it for arrows. 
The lumberyard also sells gray elm, but I have no idea if that is American elm or some other variety.  Either way, I've been happier with hard maple for a white wood board bow.

[Jim Davis]

I'm trying to use them in the actual correct botanical way...

Most certain way is to use the latin names. Ulmus thomasii (rock elm)

Hard to say how many specimens they test to arrive at their data.

Actually, the ForestProducts Laboratories testes hundreds of samples of each wood.

As suspected other sources dispute the strength numbers of various properties.

All the sources that can be found other than FPL took the numbers from the FPL tests. Nobody has done comprehensive testing since FPL's work in the last century. All the other compilations are just new presentations of the existing data.

A comparison of the two on the Wood Data base shows this with Rock elm being ahead on crushing strength and having a higher SG but lower in a few others.

This is accurate for crushing strength, but specific gravity of Ulmus alata (winged elm) is .66 while rock elm is .63.  Modulus of elasticity and work to maximum load are highest for Ulmus alata (winged elm) as well and are more important bending characteristics than compression (crushing strength).

Rock elm is so close to winged elm that the difference would probably never be apparent in bow making.

Winged elm is found mostly south of the Ohio River.
 You can scroll down this page and see data for a variety of types.
 http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/rock-elm/
[/quote]

[PatM]

Agreed that they are very similar but the source I mentioned lists Rock Elm  at .75 which probably explains the greater crushing numbers.

[jeffp51]

I would use American elm or elm that does NOT have red heartwood.  Lumberyards that carry "American elm" will hopefully show you boards that do not have drastically contrasting heartwood/sapwood.

Other names for American elm:  White Elm, Water Elm, Soft Elm, or Florida Elm.

So if I have an elm log of indeterminate species seasoning--but it has red heartwood--Should I cut it up for firewood, or is there hope to make a shooter out of it?

[JackCrafty]

I would trade the red-heartwood stave to someone who likes using red elm.   Or make arrows from it.   

Any stave can be made into a shooter and any piece of flakey rock can be knapped.  It's just a matter of how much aggravation tolerance... uh, I mean "skill" you have.   

[Marc St Louis]

If you look at them by their botanical names then you can get to the bottom of things.  Without mentioning American Elm you have Ulmus rubra ( Slippery Elm, Red Elm, Gray Elm, Soft Elm ) with a sg of .58 and which is the least desirable because the wood is too variable.  Then you have Ulmus thomasii ( Cork Elm, Canadian Rock Elm, Rock Elm ) which has a sg of .65, one of the hardest Elm and excellent for bows but hard to find.  Ulmus alata ( Winged Elm, Rock Elm, Wahoo ) and with a sg of .69 is the densest of the Elms, doesn't grow up here.  Last is Ulmus crassifolia ( Cedar Elm, Southern Rock Elm, Rock Elm, Basket Elm, Red Elm ) which has a sg of .64.  Of them all the Cedar Elm is the only one, besides Ulmus rubra, that also has a trade name of Red Elm.  All the other species are not native to this country.

[HoorayHorace]

Thank you for the helpful replies 

[IdahoMatt]

There is a ton of elm around here in southern ID mostly old homestead trees with quite a few smaller ones too.  Must be some kind of hybrid.  The closest I've found to a pic on the search sights is Siberian elm.  Don't know if it's good for bows but I have a sapling I am going to try out soon.  Anyone know if it is?  No intention to hijack.

[bushboy]

Not sure what species of elm grows in very cold manitoba but it is excellent bow wood from what I've seen!

[IdahoMatt]

I'll say bushboy.  You've been turning out some great bows.