Shaft Diameter

[Comancheria]

I will shortly be working with cane (not completely sure what variety) and Youpon holly shoots.  I realize that spine andsrraightness are the most important aspects, but leaving those aside from the moment, in your opinion, is there a maximum diameter for the front end of tapered shafts?  I have heard it said no more than 3/8 ".  Would half inch be out of the question of I need that for spine?  Opinions?

Thanks,

Russ

[bow101]

I will shortly be working with cane (not completely sure what variety) and Youpon holly shoots.  I realize that spine andsrraightness are the most important aspects, but leaving those aside from the moment, in your opinion, is there a maximum diameter for the front end of tapered shafts?  I have heard it said no more than 3/8 ".  Would half inch be out of the question of I need that for spine?  Opinions?

Thanks,

Russ

Depends on what ya doing, I use wood shafts that are all 11/32".    3/8 "  shafts may be lumber poles way to much spine.

[Pat B]

What length are your arrows? Find the best section of the cane shaft that your arrow length will fit in. My hill cane arrows are about 3/8" at the point end and 5/16" at the nock for a 30" arrow.

[mullet]

Hill cane is a lot denser then River cane. River cane having a larger hole. My River cane arrows are close to a half inch on the point end.

[Danzn Bar]

What pound bow are we talking about??  and there are way too many variables in natural shafts to say 3/8" or 1/2" would be good to use unless lots of trial and error is in your future.  I know you guys said " my arrows"      But, I'm sure you guys have gone through lots of trial and error, as I have for my bows.  IMHO the best way to get close, quick, is to spine your shafts for the bow weight your intending to shoot it from to get started, then use the 1" longer than 28" = 5# less spine and 1" shorter than 28" = 5# more spine, using point weight to fine tune.
But, that's JMO   
DBar 

[mullet]

Some bows I'm shooting 45-50 and others are 55-60. A lot of times I change point weights. Or, have Chris Cade make me a set of arrows that fit a certain bow.

[DC]

When you're playing with this stuff how big should the steps be? I was messing with one today and I tried 3 tips 100, 125,and 140 grain. Is that too big a jump between steps?

[Danzn Bar]

+/- 25 grs on the point is fine,  I think changing arrow length makes more difference in tuning than point weight.  My experience has been that most of the time the arrow is too stiff for the bow.  I think it's just being human to think your pulling more weight and a longer draw length than what you really are.
DBar

[Comancheria]

Thanks for the information, guys.  But I may not have stated my concern well enough.  As I said, I understand completely the importance of spine, and within that subject, point weight, arrow length and all that.  I bring all that with me from non-traditional archery.

My concern is that I have no familiarity with primitive shafts.  And when I pick up a piece of cane and play with bending it, although I am not scientifically measuring spine, I can feel that the only pieces stiff enough for, say, 50#@ 28" measure around .45 to .50 inch diameter on the big (point) end.  So I am wondering if, without regard to spine, that diameter might be way over the top for reasons totally unrelated to spine--say wind resistance or something like that. One answer has been that it is probably too big and another actually uses that diameter.  All good info.

I am not sure what variety of cane I am dealing with, but it sure ain't hill cane--as witness the fact I am cutting it about 50 feet from the Gulf of Mexico!😊. The Ag rep says it is Phragmites.  Not sure I believe that.

Thanks,

Russ

[Pat B]

Take pics and post them.

[Comancheria]

Will do Pat, when I figure out the process on this miserable iPhone. (No computer for now and I encounter weird issues when copying URL s from the host site). But I'll get there.

I assume you mean pictures of the cane growing for ID?

I have one stand growing about 3 miles from the house that, in addition to the leaves and their sheath-like husks, has little branchlets with leaves growing out of some of the nodes.  Another, stand, about 25 miles down the road, lacks these growths entirely.  I am thinking the former might be Arundaria Gigantica and the latter, Phragmites.

Thanks,

Russ

[Buck67]

Cut the cane about 48" or longer.  Take it home and then spline it before you cut it to a final length.  You may be have to use the thicker end of the cane or you may have to use the thinner end to get the required spine.  I spline my shafts before I straighten them, no point in wasting time on working on an arrow shaft that is going to have a 125# spline.  You will probably have to make foreshafts for them if the hole in the middle too big.  Either that or glue a reinforcing plug into the point and the nock.  If you can get your length to work out that the nock is right at a joint in the bamboo that will give you a better nock.

[Comancheria]

Thanks, Buck67.  I have about 50 plants in the shop, drying, de husked and deleaved, and anywhere from 60 to 70 inches long.  Still fairly green as you go up.  Has it been your experience that they stiffen considerably when dry?

[Buck67]

So far my experience is just with dry bamboo.  I just worked up some that I cut in the Spring.  I cut them, wrapped them and then forgot them until last week.  So I can't tell you if the spline changes any.

[Springbuck]

 They will stiffen a lot when dry.

With dogwood, plum, and other hard shoots (less so, willow)  I usually reduce the front end of all the shafts to consistent diameter.  My reasoning is that, when you flex a shaft to measure spine, where does it flex the most?  The middle, right?  So taking some off the front won't change spine, much.  Also, if I pick a bunch and measure the tail end, that is a good start toward consistency. 

 I have a hardwood board with an 11/32 hole drilled in, and a 23/64 hole, and a 3/8", and some notches same size,  etc.  So, I peel the bark, dry them, etc.  Then, I measure by sticking the tail in one of the holes in the board.  I cut it off where it stops.  Then I cut to length, plus an inch, The point ends will be about 3/8" on the red osier I use the most.

Now, they won't all taper the same, point end is biggest, but it tapers, too.  I take a crayon or charcoal, and color the 3" of the tip of the shaft.  Then use a scraper, like a pocketknife, to scrape it until the crayon is gone.  Then color 6" of the shaft and scrape that off.  Check that front end diameter.  Do this until the shafts will all fit the front 1/3rd of their length into the 23/64 hole. 

Then put in nocks, do your heat straightening, and start your bare shaft tuning.