Noob red oak long bow and questions on hickory

[chrisgedwards]

Apparently I can't post my pics because they are too big so here are Instagram links wich is noobish and lame....

http://instagram.com/p/vR6gPVPs0p/
http://instagram.com/p/vR6dsVvs0b/
http://instagram.com/p/vR6jczvs01/
http://instagram.com/p/vR6k_xvs1A/

Here are some pics of my first "succesful bow." It's a huge 72" ntn, aprox 50lbs at 27," made from hardware store red oak with a poplar handle. Noob mistake, I put the arrow inset on the wrong side so I had to put in a little hook. Also the shortest string the archery shop carried was too short for the bow. I now leave it on the wall strung for show and tell only. I need a new bow that I can use and be proud of, I've learned from my mistakes. Oh that wall was marked for demo lol.

On Friday (payday!!) I'm finally going to the hardwood store to pick up some better wood. Red oak is so porous in the (late?) growth and I don't like it one bit. I'm buying some kiln dried one inch thick hickory board. I've heard such wonders about hickory, pretty psyched to try it.

For this new bow I want a much shorter, more durable bow with recurve and more power. My request to all of you wonderful, much more experienced people, is to please critique my currently planed dimensions for this hickory...

Hickory board
1/2" flat bow (before tiller) (too thin?)
7" riser
60-65lbs at 27"
60-65" ntn
2-2.25" wide at fades
Fades to 1/3 limb
Fades to 1/2" over last 6"
Static Recurve over last 8"

Hopefully I have the terminology correct. On my maple bows (3 before the redoak above) I used steam to curve the wood and had little success above 30lbs. I believe the wood was of low quality as was my heating. I just bought a 2 temp (500-1000 degree) heat gun I hope to use on my hickory with al foul and/ or oil for heat dissipation.

[bradsmith2010]

 consider making a straight stave bow with no glue on handle,,,66 68 inches long ,, to handle the heavy draw,, if you get that one then progress to recurving,,
the straight stave bow will shoot nearly as hard at the recurve,,

[Jim Davis]

Why do you want a 60-65# bow? That will make your job much harder. Are you shooting that weight now?

Agree with Brad: don't do a recurve for your second bow.

Tiller looks good on your first  bow.

I recommend not making a cut-out/shelf.

For my taste, I'd also skip the paint....

[PEARL DRUMS]

Id stick with YOUR desired weight if that is what you want. The difference between a 55# bow and 65# is a handful of scrapes, we've all been there fella's. Id also suggest keeping it straight for now. Keep the fades 2" wide minimum. Hickory is tough wood and will handle almost anything its given. It will take set with regular use, regardless of design, but it wont break.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,47590.msg650370.html#msg650370

This is a link to a hickory bow I made a few months ago. I called it a stout 55#, its more like 60#.   

[Del the cat]

Now't wrong with 72", my side of the pond that's now't
jazzy paint job and a nice even bend, could maybe bend more in the outer half of each limb.
Good shot on the wall, did you sneak up on it?
Two words of advice for a newb' simplicity and patience, master the basics, the rest will come as you solve the problems that present themselves. (No shortage of problems in bow making).
The fancy recurves and flip tips are very pretty, but my 'go to' bow is a plain flatbow or an English longbow. I rarely shoot anything with recurve or flips.
Plenty of things to improve on nubber two, smoother transition from handle to limb (the fade) slimmer lighter tips, better tiller.
Hope you don't mind the critique. To have made a shootable bow is an achievement in itself .
Del
(50# is a nice shootable weight... plenty of time to get into the heavy weight stuff once you've earned your stripes... I pulled 100# over the age of 60, just to prove I could... you got plenty of time )

[Springbuck]

1/2" is plenty of hickory.

Length and width are good but go 64 or so to start, you can always take wood off.  Nice wide limbs.  I don't know what "fades to 1/3 limb" means.   

Making a wide flat bow and then flipping the tips is not hard, if you don't get too crazy. 8" recurves are a LOT without deflex at the handle, and angle is important.  An 8" recurve that pulls the tip 4" forward is likely too much, and if they are angular (kinked in one spot) they will absolutely give you fits.  Angle will approach 60 deg.   I say, for your first just crank 6" or less forward about 2", about 25 degree bend.  Steam or boil, THEN heat treat.  Wet heat protects the wood while bending, dry heat makes it stay.

Glue on the handle and then work the limbs down, so the fadeouts leave you a stiff enough handle.

Oak varies a lot in density and the rings (they are the early rings) are so porous. Look for physically heavy board and high late to early ring ratios.  High solid:low porous.

[chrisgedwards]

Thanks for all the feedback! I'm going to take everyone's advice and shoot for 50lbs. I love painting my bows, hopefully I'll get a better finish this time.

I'm so dead set on the recurve! I love long bows but I'd really like something short to take hiking. I also drive a tiny little sports car so I can't fit my longbow and a pasanger at the same time.

I hadn't noticed how little the ends of the limbs didn't bend on the red oak, good god. I'll post pics when I get my hickory, I use no power tools besides the saw for the initial cut. I'm checking out American steel here in Oakland on Saturday. I'm hoping I can start working on my projects at such "maker spaces"

[chrisgedwards]

By fades 1/3 down the limb I meant: the width of the limbs will stay at 2" until 1/3 of the way between the handle at the notch. Then the limbs will taper down to 1/2" which it will stay at for 4-6"

[chrisgedwards]

One more comment! Why would some of you recommend against the nearly center shot arrow shelf? It's plenty thick in the handle

[Jim Davis]

A cut-in shelf is largely a matter of taste. If modern recurve fashions appeal to you, then you'll want that shelf. If you like to get the feel of what Saxton Pope and Art Young shot, then no shelf. Most of the aboriginal bows did not have shelves either.

This is, after all, the "Primitive Archer" forum, not exactly "modern" by definition.  I do some modern things too, just not shelves.  I want to feel the arrow shaft on my bow hand.

Jim Davis

[chrisgedwards]

I can't tell you how many times I've explained to people how much more morally sound I find it to hunt with  a bow you've made vs a rifle. You're right about the importance of owning a primitive bow. Since I'll be buying so much hickory board and I'm giving in and using my table saw for rough cuts, I think I'll cut up a off the hand style just because. Good input guys

[turtle]

You might want to invest in a spool of string material as well. You can make dozens of strings for the price of a couple store bought ones. And in any lenght you need.

[chrisgedwards]

Yes, I was thinking about the amount I spend on bow strings, I think I'll invest on a spool. Recommendations?

[PEARL DRUMS]

If your a tree stand deer hunter you may really appreciate a shelf, I know I do.  I consider my bows tools more than replicas or from a specific era. They are a tool and need to function according to my tastes when Im hunting. A shelf holds my arrow when my hands cant. Which is often in the bow hunting situations I get in. Im not into primitive specifically, I just love wood bows.

[paulsemp]

I would highly recommend the next thing you do is build or buy a target. Patching walls is no fun and if you hit a water pipe in your wall then you'll have really no fun