I was thinking

[Kegan]

About arrowheads. I read Hill's chapter on broadhead design, where he said long and narrow, and that short didn't work. Then I read the chapter on steel points in TBB vol. II, saying that short was better, and long didn't work. Both completely contradicted each other. Then I went back and looked at the pictures...

It's the ferrule!

The closer the tip is to ferrule, the more force the point seems to have for penetration. On shorter heads, it is easier to get the ferrule closer to the point. On Hill's head, his ferrules went all the way up the blade with overhanging barbs.

I gotta test it, but it seems to make sense, explainging why both designs worked well for their users. Any other takes on it?

[stiknstring]

I have been curious about this too...applying to trade point design. Kegan while doing your experiment try this for me.  Make a trade point 3 inches long by one inch wide.  Mount it in the shaft tie on style so that the foreend of the shaft comes up to where the ferrule normally would and taper the end of the wood.  Your work could save me some time that I do not have currently lol/......

[PK]

Thanks Kegan for bringing that up Ive been pondering about that ferrule distance from the tip bit for a while. You guys make learning fun.

[Kegan]

I'm going to see if I can make some "foreshafts" with a bunch of different broadheads (not actual hunting heads, probabaly some weaker glavanized for time/materials sake) and difefretn ferules. Try them all off one arrow for the same flight pattern. I think some pine pitch and trhead tied on at an angle, like I do for hand drill bits. Shooting from a couple different weight bows.

I'm thinking of these dimensions so far: A) 1" long by 1" wide, B) 2" long by 1" wide, C) 3" long by 1" wide, and three of each, with the "ferrule" (tapered shaft) behid the point, at the middle, and almost to the tip. Giving me nine groups. I'll do the test this weekend, making the points during the week. I'll have to find a suitable arrow (or make it) and the foreshafts.

I don't know what to shoot them into though- maybe styrofoam? Would cardboard work? I dunno- any ideas?

In theory, the longest point, with the ferrule all the way to the tip should work the best, with the worst being the short blade with the ferrule behidn the point- but we'll have to see

[Glenn R.]

I prefer the 3 to 1 ratio. But I believe either style will work adequately when placed in the right spot On my primitive bow/arrow and homemade steel heads I had one completely break the backbone in two on a doe I spined. But, that brings up point two.  A recent study in TBM shown that a single bevel (like the grizzly) penetrates bone better than a blade sharpened on both sides. Only when I make my heads I make them with the single bevel on the right(looking down the arrow from the nock end) so that they're made for left helical. Grizzly's are not and will not penetrate well unless shot with right helical. It would be the same as trying to run a drill bit in reverse--or sharpening a drill bit---By removing metal you're creating the cutting surface on the opposite side--even though the drill is fluted--same principal.

[PK]

I'm going to see if I can make some "foreshafts" with a bunch of different broadheads (not actual hunting heads, probabaly some weaker glavanized for time/materials sake) and difefretn ferules. Try them all off one arrow for the same flight pattern. I think some pine pitch and trhead tied on at an angle, like I do for hand drill bits. Shooting from a couple different weight bows.

I'm thinking of these dimensions so far: A) 1" long by 1" wide, B) 2" long by 1" wide, C) 3" long by 1" wide, and three of each, with the "ferrule" (tapered shaft) behid the point, at the middle, and almost to the tip. Giving me nine groups. I'll do the test this weekend, making the points during the week. I'll have to find a suitable arrow (or make it) and the foreshafts.

I don't know what to shoot them into though- maybe styrofoam? Would cardboard work? I dunno- any ideas?

In theory, the longest point, with the ferrule all the way to the tip should work the best, with the worst being the short blade with the ferrule behidn the point- but we'll have to see

Its really hard to pull them out of cardboard styro foam would be better best be thick cause like my bonehead arrows I just made went right through 3/8 plywood.
Kinda shocking gladb they didn't go into my wall

[Kegan]

Hmm... even more tests ! I'll find what douyble bevel works best, then compare that to the same style with single bevels.

I guess i'll just hve to use whatever i can get my paws on.

Whoops- the theoretical worst would be the long blade with the ferrule behind the blade .

[1/2primitive]

This is how I think of it.
The closer the ferrule is to the tip, the more strength there is in the tip---Thin metal is weaker than thick metal.(duh), so by adding more thickness to the tip of the head (the ferrule), the tip is more likely to be able to withstand the force better, and stay firm during the shot, ultimately leading to better penetration.

As for the single bevel, I've made a couple and really like them. They twist with the way the arrow is already going, cutting a spiral through the target, (animal or artificial, whichever ). And, I can't say for certain, but it follows reason that it would penetrate deeper than the double bevel because of the reduced friction.
    Sean

[Kegan]

Sean- the stronger tip is one of the reason for the "short is the best" mindset in the chaper on steel points in TBB2. What you're saying is the same as mine, but I'd like to test dimensions with the difference in ferrule as well.

I was making an ax handle today and looked over at an augering bit- beveled only on one side. Makes alot of sense that if it works on wood, it'll work on meat .

[mullet]

  Kegan, If you flatten the tip and sharpen both sides, it will make it like a chisel and help keep it from folding over when it hits a bone