long string vas short string poundage??

[tattoo dave]

Just wanted to get everybodies thoughts. I've had a couple recent bows now where the poundage varied from long string to the short string. I checked weight at long string, was good, shortened string to low brace, maybe 4", and poundage went up about 5 pounds. I don't usually get super picky on weight for my own bows, but making some for trade. I'm wondering if that's normal, or if it's time to purchase a new scale

Tattoo Dave

[half eye]

Dave, shorter string= shorter ntn= more load (draw weight) The brace height is like pre-load as the height increases so does the weight. Dont know what the books say just my take on it...sure somebody that knows will chime in.
rich

[Crogacht]

I've only got half a bows worth of experience, but I found the same thing and my scales are new. Weight went up when I swapped to the short string.

[Badger]

  Sometimes the weight goes up and sometimes the weight goes down. It is usually close enough for me to determine when to brace a bow. I don't pay much attention to the lower inches when on a long string, but if I have a bow 50# on the long string@24" and then I brace the bow th bow ill still read pretty close to 50# on the short string. The bow will have a lot more stress on it than it had braced because it is bending much further but the string angles will be similar and thats the big determiner of draw weight once the starting point has ben established. If your bow is underbuilt or badly tillered it may loose weight at the same inches when braced because the wood gets crunched. But generaly speaking on the bows I build it is pretty close and I build a very wide variety of styles and lenghts and weights. Thats what I use to determine when to brace a bow unless I am just going by feel.

[George Tsoukalas]

I long string tiller out to 10 inches of string movement (not tip movement). I keep checking weight and also check for good bending
At that distance, I want target weight + 5#. I know that potentially at 26" (my draw) I will get 5 # over my target weight.
Then, I string it at a brace of 3 inches. I'll increase the brace as I proceed to full draw.
For example, if I want a 50# bow,  I long string out to 10" and keep reducing weight until I hit 55# or so.
My long string is around 1.5 times longer than the bow for this method.
Your mileage may vary if you have a longer or shorter draw but can be calculated proportionally.
Jawge

[Badger]

   Jawge, I am going to slightly and respectfully disagree with you. I see where your method will work fine because you use a string of similar length. Botom line is that it really doesn't matter much how long the string is, just look and see how much it is pulling at so many inches draw. String cab be 1" longer than the bow or 12" longer, still reads close enough to know when to brace.

[George Tsoukalas]

You can disagree, Steve. I've used this method for many years. I do believe the length of the string impacts this method because of string angles but can't say for sure. I think that with a shorter string you are stressing the limbs more.
The 1.5 x  longer was a ball park figure. I know that some bowyers like to use a long string equal to bow's length.
I've never tested with another differently sized string.
You know.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Jawge

[George Tsoukalas]

A few more words here. In my early days, I broke far too many staves at first stringing because they were just too heavy to be strung.
So I developed this method.
It is a slow careful approach to getting the stave ready for the short string.
I now many can go from floor tiller to stringing on a routine basis. More power to them but I've needed this crutch. It has served me well.
Jawge

[Badger]

  Jawge, not a crutch at all, you found a method that works. I have also found a method that works that is also slow and meticulous, probably more so than your mthod. Very easy to test.

[Badger]

  I am going to try and word this differently. I say that tip movement, string movement, and the weight you are actually pulling on the bow have no correlation to draw weight. The best indicator or current draw weight is simply to pull the string down to the draw length you are looking for or until the scale hits the draw wight and you check and see how many inches of draw you are at regardless of string length braced or unbraced. I am not saying it is 100% accurate but I am saying it is the best indicator.

   The little flight bow I just did, I hit 50#@20 on the long string, I braced the bow and it was still 50#@20". The 100#@26 bow I did last week, was showing 100#24 on the lng string, I braced the bow and still showing 100#@24.

[tattoo dave]

All good info fellas. For the most part I've never seen much increase, a little, like a pound or 2. Just wondered. Thanks!!

Tattoo Dave

[George Tsoukalas]

Steve, weight of stave at 10 inches is correlated to weight of bow at 26".
Trust me. It is. I have used this method since the early 90's.
Further, I've taken tillered bows and drawn them 10 inches with the long string and have obtained draw weight.
I know it is hard to believe.
Once again this method is a rough guide to when to string the bow. Some can do it by feel. That's good.
I can see people running down to try it on finished bows.
That's good too. LOL.
Jawge

[George Tsoukalas]

Steve, I am not saying your method does not work.  I am sure it does.
I've just never liked long stringing too far.
Jawge

[Badger]

Jawge, I am sure your method works as well.  The only thing I feel is important to prove and not for the sake of an arguement but for the sake of facts is that tip movement gives no reflection of draw weight  unless you are using a very similar length string all the time. Just reading the draw length on your tiller board means you don't have to worry about how long your tiller string is.

[George Tsoukalas]

I don't know, Steve. Remember that in a finished bow, tips at best move a few inches. I think they are going to move a lot more with a really short string and strain limbs too soon for my tastes.
I haven't thought about string lengths between those I've mentioned.
Jawge