What's Primitive and/or 'Traditional'?

[Shooter]

For us newbs, please be patient I'm not trying to start a war or even an argument. It's just that I was a little confused reading that other thread. Questions started rolling.

Is it OK to use a heat gun, belt sander, bandsaw, etc, in procuring 'primitive' bows? What about epoxies, resins and the like?

If I use TBIII, For example, how different is that from using glue I might make myself from hooves, skins and snouts?

What if I use synthetic fibers to make strings to shoot arrows made from aluminum or carbon and plastic with my 'traditional' bow?

Personally, all I use is a table saw, and sometimes a jig saw for power tools, a few files hand planes and scrapers, tightbond and white carpenter's glue, and natural oils and stains. But I don't look down my schnorchel at folks who use more power tools than I use, or resins and epoxies...or even fiberplastics.

I think most primitive bowyers from back in the day would scratch their heads if they saw us shunning any modern material or method/process that would make our bows better. They'd be incensed if we told them it was a no-no to adopt new technologies and to evolve their methods. Hey, I'm just playing devil's advocate here...

So what do you think? Where do you draw the line personally?

Hoping this will be a productive and friendly discussion. No potshots please.

Looking forward to reading your thoughts.

TIA

Bruce

[Justin Snyder]

Bruce, Traditional archery is using longbows and recurves regardless of the material used to make them.
Primitive means that natural materials are used for the bow.  Wood, bamboo, sinew, silk are examples of natural materials.  There are some concessions that are made to allow in Primitive.  All glues and finishes are allowed as are decorations.  But the working parts of the bow are to be natural. As for tools, anything goes really.  There are a few guys who can make a bow using stone age tools, I call them stone bows.  Those guys are the true craftsmen/artists of primitive archery.  Justin

[jamie]

this should be interetsing. most everything done on this site is early traditional, from the pope and young, howard hill, fred bear era. the reason its called primitive is to seperate it from modern traditional, ie. glass bows.  we really should call it natural archery seeing as we strive to use as much natural material as possible. several of us build bows with aboriginal tools so thats about as primitive as it gets but even that can be considered natural cause its still for our hobby and we really dont need it to live. looking forward to respomses to this thread. lets all remain level headed ok.  

[Shooter]

That's great. Thanks a lot, Justin.

I hope this isn't redundant to the thread about self bows. I didn't want to lead that thread astray with my own silly musings.

Bruce

[GregB]

Bruce,  I agree with your thoughts and the tone of your message. We're all of us individuals and as such have different opinions involving this hobby we enjoy. What is considered a challenge by one individual is not considered so by another, and that is only natural.

I have the greatest respect for those that make the decision to only work only with primitive tools and materials throughout the entire bow making process from cutting down the tree and splitting the logs, to making their own natural bow strings to use on the finished bow. If that person were ever in the position of having to make a bow without modern tools in order to survive, they may have the experience to do so where I might perish trying.

I personally don't have the patience or desire to go that route, and enjoy making bows using todays modern tools. I think that's ultimately what it's about anyways...the enjoyment and personal feeling of satisfaction of making a wooden bow by whatever means you wish. If someone wants to call a bow I've made primitive, that's fine with me. If they think it's not primitive due to the process I used to make it, and instead want to call it "traditional", that's also fine with me. It is more important to me that they feel it is well made and pleasing to the eye, regardless of the fabrication method used.  

[mullet]

   Bruce,about every 6 months this question comes up on this board. And the same replies follow and it goes on and on and you end up with no real answer to your question. Everybody has their own opinion as to what  "Primitive" is. My advice is to make bows, arrows, chip points learn new things and most of all ,have fun. In the long run, your question of what makes a Primitive bow will not help you in making one.

[Shooter]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, gents.

I know it's a newb query and I appreciate your patience, Eddie. And your points are VERY well taken.

hmmm...the central theme here seems to be the fun factor.

[Hillbilly]

I don't think you'll find any one definition, as everybody said, we're doing it for fun. Maybe most of us are closer to "homemade" archery.  I guess I would consider true primitive archery to be using all natural tools and materials, and to be the real thing, probably within the context of a "primitive" society. I enjoy making equipment and bows using everything from  stone tools to power tools, depending on the mood I'm in and the reason for the project that I'm working on. Most of my bows are made with a mix of hand and power tools. If I was trying to create a true replica bow to see if I could reproduce it, I would try to use the tools and materials available to the culture who made it. I make all my arrows from scratch, and usually hunt with stone points that I knap myself. I do often use modern glues and finishes, and most of my bowstrings are made from B-50 dacron. I have made strings from rawhide, sinew, and plant fibers, and will again, but for everyday shooting and hunting, I prefer a mix of primitive and modern. I have practiced primitive skills enough to do everything the old way if I need to or want to, down to making the stone tools and using them, and making glue with rocks heated on a fire spun from a hand drill but I usually don't need to or want to.    I do stuff like that when I'm in the mood for fun or a challenge, but it's good to know that you could if you had to. 

[Justin Snyder]

hmmm...the central theme here seems to be the fun factor.

You are a quick learner. 

Like everybody said, its more of a personal definition.  I was refering more to the rules we try to post by on this site.  Justin

[a finnish native]

I will have to say that a bow built with powertools is not primitive in my book, but traditional.

[Badger]

        I first heard the word primitive as it applies to bows when I bought a computer. Tim Baker and I were talking last night, he considers paleo back in the stone ages, I consider paleo pre- fiberglass. I just like all wood bows and don't really care what they are called, primitive and paleo groups just seem to be the ones for me to most closely identify with. I will admit that the more experience I get the less I lean toward power tools and seem to prefer hand tools more and more whenever time will allow. steve

[Glenn R.]

For me it seems to be a process of backwards evolution. I am slowly using less and less modern materials and am experimenting with natural string materials. My goal is to do away with the laminated longbow and go strictly primitive as well as build a backwards style selfbow from a small dia. tree using stone tools. Not using modern glues/epoxies/finishes.  Now this isn't because of my hobby of building bows but because of my love of hunting. Make any sense? Even though I love building primitive bows I would still say the percentage lays somewhere around 35% building primitive equip. / 65% hunting -----trying to put myself in the footsteps of an ancient hunter---thats where I see the goal for myself. Just easing into it slowly

[Pat B]

Like Glenn, I'm working my way backwards. I want to eventually see how simple I can make it and still be effective. I build wood bows and hardwood shoot and cane arrows because I enjoy it. I like knowing I can compete with the traditional glass guys and the high tech wheel guys in hunting situations and that I have made most of the stuff with my own hands. I am more of an archer than a hunter although I love hunting and with my stuff...I just don't kill much.
   Probably the reason we all call this primitive archery is because Primitive Archer Magazine sponsors this site. It is definitely traditional archery and I make it as primitive as I want cause thats what I want to do. I also use a band saw, belt sander, B-50 strings, 2 part epoxy, super glue, spray poly and other modern materials but my heart is primitive. Most of the work I do on bows and arrows is with hand tools and a very little with stone. I would say the definition of primitive would be...making what you need with what you have to work with...or can trade for!      Pat

[leapingbare]

If Primitive people had a bandsaw i bet they would use it.. than again if primitive people had a gun i bet they would use it too.. 

[Sidewinder]

Maybe what is being defined is a subclass called Modern primitve, although I think Hillbilly hit the nail on the head, it's homemade archery is what it is and thats what makes it so satisfying. Just like growin yer own veggies and home cooking, there aint nuthin better.   Danny