Author Topic: tiller help please! Updated!  (Read 4735 times)

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Offline lebhuntfish

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tiller help please! Updated!
« on: May 10, 2014, 01:37:48 am »
I have been working on this maple bow for a while now. Here is the specs, 68"T2T  it is made from a maple board.  It has a 1" wide handle and is 1/1/2" at the fades. Tapering to 1/2" at the tips.  I fliped the tips about 2" and I heat treated the belly. It's also backed with a piece of bleached lennon I found at a thrift store.  The handle is off center, 3"below and 1" above the center mark so the left limb is shorter a bit. It's currently pulling 35lbs at 28" I would just like to get the tiller right this time. Any help would be great. I think the left limb is a little stiff near the handle. Currently the limbs measure evenly on both sides. Thanks for your help and advise. Patrick.

 

 

 
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 10:52:26 pm by lebhuntfish »
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Offline Weylin

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Re: tiller help please!
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2014, 01:49:47 am »
Left side is working harder than the right, by my eyes.

Offline huisme

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Re: tiller help please!
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2014, 02:11:59 am »
I agree, and it seems to me the fades could stand to work a little more.
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mikekeswick

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Re: tiller help please!
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2014, 03:03:00 am »
The left hand limb has two hinges with a stiff spot between them.
Search tillering gizmo and then use it to get the tiller right! They make tillering boards like this a piece of cake.
The problem areas on your bow could be seen with a long string so get it unbraced and back on the long string until the bend is corrected.

Offline Badger

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Re: tiller help please!
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2014, 09:10:14 am »
  Fish, in the future get the tiller help before you draw the bow as far as you drew it. The damage has allready been done for the most part. Make all your corrections as soon as you can see them. All part of the learning process. By the time you get the limbs evened out you won't have any weight left. I would start a new one.

Offline lebhuntfish

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Re: tiller help please!
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2014, 10:09:06 am »
Thanks guys, I was afraid of being to light by the time I got it done.   But right now he I could get it to bend right that would be awesome.

 mikekeswick, I have a tillering gizmo but I have no faith in it. According to it that limb on the left is fine  except about 5" near the handle.

 Badger, your right I probably shouldn't have been so stubborn and posted pictures sooner. Well lesson learned once again.

I will work on this one till I get it right even if it weighs 10lbs when I'm done. Worst that could happen is that I give it to my neighbors little girl that's 5 years old. Thanks guy's! I appreciate your honesty! Patrick
Once an Eagle Scout, always an Eagle Scout!

Missouri, where all the best wood is! Well maybe not the straightest!

Building a bow has been the most rewarding, peaceful, and frustrating things I have ever made with my own two hands!

Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: tiller help please!
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2014, 11:02:09 am »
I think your plan is a good one.  Fix it and get it right.  I find that most new bowyers cannot tell you the tiller shape they are after.  If you cant see it before hand there is little chance of achieving it later.  Badger is right in that you went much to far with too much not right in the tiller.  Take a 4 inch straight edge and run it along the belly on each limb.  Check the gap as you move it along from handle to tip.  It should be a consistently even gap all the way, save for the first inch or so at the handle and where the tip stiffens up.  Left limb on yours will show a big gap mid limb, flattening out to near no gap in both directions.  That's where your bend is, no where else.  Get the rest of the limb (gap) even with the straight edge.  The right limb suffers from some of the same issues so ditto the straight edge.  When the gap is consistent on both limbs, you will have circular tiller shape.  The stiff handle will not be part of the circle, so the handle and fades will be flat, but it should begin bending just past the fade and continue that ark until just before the stiff part of the tip.  You wont have any weight left on it at that, but you will have achieved a decent tiller.  Study that shape, compare it to like bows on here and see where you can improve a little next go.  Shoot for that shape on your next one the minute you begin to cut any wood away.  Before you ever start tillering really.
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Offline Badger

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Re: tiller help please!
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2014, 11:22:23 am »
  The bow didn't take too much set, make some minor corrections, possibly shorten it a little bit and shoot it. I will probably shoot fine. I actually like the way bows shoot when they are stiff in the fades.

Offline lebhuntfish

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Re: tiller help please!
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2014, 07:49:24 pm »
Thanks SLIMBOB, that is a really good explanation.  You were right about the mid limb part but honestly the rest wasn't very far off. I worked on it a bit this morning before going to cut some Osage. I ended up shooting it and it shot really pretty good. I will work on it some more and see what I come up with. I'm not sure about my weight numbers I posted because when I weighed it this morning it was a lot heavier like 43 lbs at 28".

I will work on it a while and get the tiller right then shorten it up and start another one. It's all about getting your feet wet and learning from your mistakes. Thanks guy's. Patrick
Once an Eagle Scout, always an Eagle Scout!

Missouri, where all the best wood is! Well maybe not the straightest!

Building a bow has been the most rewarding, peaceful, and frustrating things I have ever made with my own two hands!

Offline bow101

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Re: tiller help please!
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2014, 08:18:41 pm »
I'm not saying much other than what the others say is all good. I build mostly Maple right now 1 1/2" wide.  One thing I have learned is don't attack the fades much untill it gets bending good enough to get the short string on it.  I use to waste time on the long string, but no longer. Get those tips narrowed by tapering the limbs but leave the last 4 inches thick. I find that scraping the belly on board bows and laminates is either nada or very little now. I hope that helps.
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Offline Eric Krewson

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Re: tiller help please!
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2014, 09:04:48 pm »
I think I see your tillering gizmo in the first picture, it that is it, it is much too short and won't tell you much or work very well. It need to 1"X 6" to work correctly.

Here is what you need, 6" long.

« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 09:08:12 pm by Eric Krewson »

Offline lebhuntfish

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Re: tiller help please!
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2014, 10:29:32 pm »
Thank you Eric, that one in your pic is nice. I will make me a new one. But your right that is my tillering gizmo.  It is 3/1/4"long I don't remember where I got that measurement from but I remember looking it up on a build along somewhere.

Thanks bow101, I have found that the fades are either hard to get to bend or very easy depending on the wood. Maple is hard and red oak is easy.

I also think part of my problem was the original dimensions I was given for tapering the belly. It had me do the last third from 7/16" to 3/8".  I noticed immediately that they were too thin after I cut they of course. I think I would have been better if I would have made a straight taper from 3/4"at the fade to 1/2" thick at the tips then worked it down from there.
Once an Eagle Scout, always an Eagle Scout!

Missouri, where all the best wood is! Well maybe not the straightest!

Building a bow has been the most rewarding, peaceful, and frustrating things I have ever made with my own two hands!

Offline lebhuntfish

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Re: tiller help please!
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2014, 10:51:31 pm »
AAAAAHHHHH!!  This is now the third board bow I have broken! The first two I couldn't ever figure out why. At least this one I know. It had a hinge from the time I started I guess I wish I could figure out this tiller better. It lifted a splinter right where I marked the X on the belly. I got aggravated and went out it my yard and pulled it until it busted. Then I threw it at my privacy fence believe it or not a broken limb from a piece of maple will stick in a fence pretty good when you have yourself a good ole fit. Then I calmed down and drank an adult beverage and drew out another bow and glued on a riser block.

 
Once an Eagle Scout, always an Eagle Scout!

Missouri, where all the best wood is! Well maybe not the straightest!

Building a bow has been the most rewarding, peaceful, and frustrating things I have ever made with my own two hands!

Offline bow101

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Re: tiller help please! Updated!
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2014, 11:14:27 pm »
Ouch,  keep trying you will get it. I broke  couple bows in the same spot, but I was pulling over 60# @ 26" ya like pulling well over my intended draw weight of 48# @27"   Just go slow and you'll get the feel for it.  I took me some time and finally I got much faster at it.  Practice that floor tillering. Just do a search.   ;)
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are."  Joseph Campbell

Offline lebhuntfish

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Re: tiller help please! Updated!
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2014, 11:35:40 pm »
Thanks bow I appreciate it. I have been reading and watching videos for quite a while now.
Once an Eagle Scout, always an Eagle Scout!

Missouri, where all the best wood is! Well maybe not the straightest!

Building a bow has been the most rewarding, peaceful, and frustrating things I have ever made with my own two hands!