Author Topic: Hop hornbeam checking bad!  (Read 4006 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TRACY

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,523
Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« on: April 24, 2014, 10:46:43 pm »
I cut down a 6"dia. fairly straight knot less HHB two weeks ago and had the bark removed and the back and ends sealed with poly within an hour of cutting it. After a week of drying I checked it with some other drying/ sealed staves and found the ends checked badly. Cut off the ends to check free wood and resealed heavily with poly again. Looked at it yesterday and it's as bad as it was prior. I've sealed smaller trees with no problem and my barn temp ranges from 65-80 degrees during this time. Any of you guys with HHB experience have any possible explanations? Thanks for the input!

Tracy
It is what it is - make the most of it!    PN500956

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2014, 11:00:17 pm »
It's drying too fast.  You should leave the bark on for a little while to slow moisture loss.

Offline ajooter

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,234
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2014, 11:24:08 pm »
I've heard guys wrapping the staves in saran wrap to slow drying...maybe an option

Offline okie64

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,134
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2014, 11:38:13 pm »
This may not help you on this stave but in the future cut your staves long enough that you can cut a couple inches off of each end and the checks will disappear. Thats what I do :)

Offline TRACY

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,523
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2014, 06:47:17 am »
This may not help you on this stave but in the future cut your staves long enough that you can cut a couple inches off of each end and the checks will disappear. Thats what I do :)

That's what I did a week ago and sealed with multiple coats of poly.

Pat M, that is what I thought at first but I recut and sealed again a week later with same results. Wondering if I should have used tb3 on it.


Tracy
It is what it is - make the most of it!    PN500956

Offline DarkSoul

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,315
    • Orion Bows
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2014, 07:08:05 am »
Several things are happening here. There's multiple things that you need to address:
- The core of all these problems is that the wood is drying too much too quickly. Place the wood in a more humid room or a colder area.
- I don't think you sealed the ends well enough. You need a real moisture barrier on the end. A coat of poly will not suffice. I use two or three coats of white wood glue myself, but several coats of poly should work as well.
- The wood is too big, in my opinion. A half log 6" x 3" will take about one and a half year to fully dry. I would have split it in quarters. That dramatically reduces drying stress.
- Why have you cut the checked ends off this early in the drying process? The wood is basically still green after two weeks. If you continue to cut off the ends every two weeks, you'll end up with a pile of 2" off cuts and no staves left... I never cut off the checked ends prior to roughing out of a fully dried stave. There's simply no reason to do it earlier. Some end cracks can be avoided in a smart bow lay-out or strengthened with a tip overlay.
- ajooter suggested wrapping staves in saran wrap to slow down drying. I've also read that before, and in principal it is true. But in my opinion, a plastic such as saran wrap does not slow down moisture loss, but it completely stops it. This will give fungi a nice environment to grow. Instead, I would advocate to wrap the staves in something that will act as a partial moisture barrier. I'm currently trying newspaper. I've wrapped some laburnum staves in newspaper and check them every two weeks for fungi or drying checks. So far so good.
"Sonuit contento nervus ab arcu."
Ovid, Metamorphoses VI-286

blackhawk

  • Guest
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2014, 07:31:20 am »
In the very least split that down more...shove glue in those end checks...and get em in a cooler moister environment(yet still has a lil air flow)......better yet get em reduced down even more than that to parallel dimensions blank wise.....Im not a fan of poly...I prefer shellac for sealing....dries uber fast and seals really well

Offline Pappy

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 32,204
  • if you have to ask you wouldn't understand ,Tenn.
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2014, 07:48:11 am »
What Chris said, I use watered down wood glue and if I get those I fill them up,if your area is like it is here the humidity is very low right now,a basement or some place more damp will probably help. :) HHB is funny that way,sometimes it checks and sometimes it don't.  :-\I do usually cut it longer if possible just in case.  :)
 Pappy
Clarksville,Tennessee
TwinOaks Bowhunters
Life is Good

Offline PEARL DRUMS

  • Member
  • Posts: 14,079
  • }}}--CK-->
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 08:05:09 am »
I have had plenty do that after treating it right. Like pappy said, HHB is weird like that. I cut them 74-78" long for that very reason.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline Marc St Louis

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 7,877
  • Keep it flexible
    • Marc's Bows and Arrows
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2014, 08:10:12 am »
I've had a problem like that before and it was because my timing was wrong when I cut the wood.  The sap had already started to flow and the wood was saturated with water.  I had left the bark on and the wood under the bark even developed drying checks
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

Marc@Ironwoodbowyer.com

Offline okie64

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,134
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2014, 09:16:17 am »
This may not help you on this stave but in the future cut your staves long enough that you can cut a couple inches off of each end and the checks will disappear. Thats what I do :)

That's what I did a week ago and sealed with multiple coats of poly.

Pat M, that is what I thought at first but I recut and sealed again a week later with same results. Wondering if I should have used tb3 on it.


Tracy

I meant cut a couple inches off of each end when you're ready to make a bow with it, like a year from now, not a couple weeks after cutting. The checks wont ususally go more than an inch or so from the ends.

Offline Blackcoyote

  • Member
  • Posts: 461
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2014, 09:21:41 am »
I cut one a few weeks ago, and split it into 4 staves, debarked, multi coats of poly on back and ends, and have them stored in my basement. 2 of the staves split bad and the other two didn't..weird!

I thought maybe it was the poly as it was the first time I used it.
Drew - St. Johns, Michigan

Offline TRACY

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,523
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2014, 01:18:48 pm »
Thanks for the input! I left them 80" and hope that I don't need to make30" inch bows ;D

Gotcha okie ;)

I will assess them tonight and slather with tb3. Also split smaller but I've done that before and got corkscrew staves.

Tracy
It is what it is - make the most of it!    PN500956

Offline PEARL DRUMS

  • Member
  • Posts: 14,079
  • }}}--CK-->
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 01:21:16 pm »
Sometimes you can cut the length off right where the cracks stop and be okay. If you leave them as is they can sometimes keep going.
Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realize we cannot eat money.

Offline TRACY

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,523
Re: Hop hornbeam checking bad!
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 10:58:33 pm »
Thanks for all the helpful info!

Dark Soul, I keep going back to all you typed so not to miss something :D

Pearl, I agree and believe the large cracks were getting longer.

Mark, when would you suggest the right time for HHB to be cut to reduce bad checking?

So, I split the staves in half to 3" wide and trimmed the ends until the checks were gone and still had 70-74" for length on 8 staves. Next, I dipped the ends into a cup of tb3 and sealed the back as well for extra measure. The back hasn't been checking except for the ends. Got them stored in a cooler spot. Thinking about dipping the ends again tomorrow. This is only the second time I've cut ironwood so I'm still learning with this wood.

Tracy
It is what it is - make the most of it!    PN500956