Author Topic: Limb Timing  (Read 19292 times)

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Offline PatM

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Limb Timing
« on: April 11, 2014, 11:11:23 pm »
You still believe that timing myth? ;)

Offline Buckeye Guy

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2014, 10:41:44 am »
You still believe that timing myth? ;)

gotta plus one ya here Pat

I would love to know how timing is done !
Guy
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Offline Bogaman

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2014, 08:48:15 pm »
I use the sun dial arc for most of my timing issues! That way every thing comes out even.

Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2014, 01:44:57 pm »
You still believe that timing myth? ;)

Yes I have been arguing against this limb timing thing for years.  There's only one way, that I can see, how you might get a timing issue and that would be by making the limb tips extremely unbalance in mass, how unbalanced you would have to make them I have no idea.
Home of heat-treating, Corbeil, On.  Canada

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Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2014, 02:03:18 pm »
Well you all can do what ya want of course. I've been advocating timing limbs to the archers holds for 15 years or so and between what I've found in the bows I've made and the results of those I've helped, it's worth it.

I'm finishing up another today... an asymmetrical osage selfbow, showing 1/16" negative tiller after timing for split finger. Got it dyed, and going back out to start spraying now.
Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2014, 02:21:06 pm »
I think a lot of how a bow works can come down to how it is used, and I think timing can be more of an issue with your form than anything. I have taken some videos of me shooting some of the bows over the years, and almost always the bottom limb comes home first when looking at it frame to frame. I think this is because of me pulling up on the bottom limb when I draw a bit, even though it doesn't look like it, I think my drawing arm is a bit higher than it should be and ends up "flicking" the bottom limb, persay. Since I have tried my best to correct this, (probably not successfully, :) ). But now I try to draw across my chest, instead of anchor at the chin or whatever recurve shooters do. It has helped me in accuracy tremendously to switch to drawing across my chest.

EDIT: And yes I know that elb is disgracefully under drawn, I offer my sincerest apologies,  :)



















« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 02:24:17 pm by toomanyknots »
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2014, 02:33:56 pm »
There was slow mo (high speed) video posted on here recently including footage of a bow deliberately tillered asymmetrically, you could see the limbs got home together.
I can't be bothered to find it, maybe someone else can >:D
Bottom line is, there is a bit of string joining the limb tips, so they must pretty much finish together.
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2014, 02:41:44 pm »
Toomanyknots, the bottom limb is returning sooner because it's too strong relevant to the top... with respect to your holds on bow and string.

Are those bows symmetrical in design? What are their tiller measurements?

Improving the timing can help the bows draw more smoothly/evenly, reduce handshock, improve arrow flight and practically make tuning an afterthought.
Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2014, 03:00:38 pm »
OK.
I've found the thread.
I suggest it should be compulsory study.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,45246.msg612828.html#msg612828
Below, is the specific clip with asymmetric tiller.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iHEiBa7zMg
Del
« Last Edit: April 13, 2014, 03:03:59 pm by Del the cat »
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline PatM

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2014, 03:12:33 pm »
So if the limbs aren't timed, do you speed one up or slow the other one down?  How does one add speed or take it away from a limb?  >:D

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2014, 03:19:38 pm »
Toomanyknots, the bottom limb is returning sooner because it's too strong relevant to the top... with respect to your holds on bow and string.

Are those bows symmetrical in design? What are their tiller measurements?

Improving the timing can help the bows draw more smoothly/evenly, reduce handshock, improve arrow flight and practically make tuning an afterthought.

These particular bows are symmetrical, all being shot almost symmetrically, save for the bottom limb being stronger mostly by feel, maybe 1/16" at the very most positive tiller. If the bottom limb of my bows are not the stronger limb, the draw does not feel right to me. I can't understand how you could shoot a bow with a stronger upper limb. At least from my personal stand point.
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline Del the cat

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2014, 03:51:29 pm »
So if the limbs aren't timed, do you speed one up or slow the other one down?  How does one add speed or take it away from a limb?  >:D
Small rocket on one, parachute on t'other >:D
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline dragonman

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2014, 04:24:17 pm »
please could someone explain this timing theory?  not sure what you're on about really, sounds interesting though! I'd say that if the limbs return home exactly  together then that bow will have very little shock or vibration felt in the bow holding hand. Does this sound right?  isnt this one of the causes of hand shock?
'expansion and compression'.. the secret of life is to balance these two opposing forces.......

Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2014, 04:45:26 pm »
My goal is to build bows that are balanced at full draw... meaning, at full draw the way I hold the handle and string, both limbs will exert equal strain on the string, resulting in a bow that doesn't try to tip in the hand during the draw, with the nock traveling straight back perpendicular to the handle, and straight forward upon release, with both limb tips arriving at true brace simultaneously. If one limb's strength (relative to all factors) is stronger, the nock will be pulled toward it during the draw relative to the shelf, and move away from it upon release. I don't want the nock end of my arrow treated that way. As Del mentioned, the string will try to stop them both at the same time, but a stronger faster limb gets there first, while the weaker acting limb is still on its way. This 'distorted brace' happens for an instant until the bow can 'right itself'. This is probably the instant we see in your pictures above.

If one limb is stronger than the other, and we work to balance them, it doesn't matter if one is weakened or the other strengthened, but usually it's easier to remove wood from the stronger.

If you're building symmetrical bows, tillered positive, with the shelf 2" above the center, you have probably become used to the feel of them shifting from static balance(at brace) to dynamic (at full draw) and posible putting extra pressure here or there where you feel it's needed. A bow that is balanced might feel odd to you and you may need to make some adjustments.

You said you dont know how someone could shoot a bow with a stronger top limb. First understand that just because a bow shows the top limb stronger at brace doesn't necessarily mean it will feel and ACT stronger at full draw... or any time during the draw. Much depends on design and the shooter's peculiars.

I make my bows to feel balanced at full draw, and depending on those things mentioned, and others, sometimes my bows are tillered negative, sometimes even, and less often, positive... but they ALL feel balanced the same at full draw.

Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer

Offline Dances with squirrels

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Re: Limb Timing
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2014, 04:47:23 pm »
Dragonman, yes, unsychronized limbs cause and/or add to handshock.
Straight wood may make a better bow, but crooked wood makes a better bowyer