Author Topic: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along  (Read 31373 times)

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Offline Mohawk13

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #60 on: March 06, 2014, 05:13:31 pm »
Where did You find the cloth snake skin? Looks like that smelly one I used from Florida on My bow. Even with 4 coats of Poly, I can still smell reptile...LOL..
He That Raises the sword against us, Shall be cleaved upon seven fold-Talmud.

Offline PAHunter

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #61 on: March 06, 2014, 05:36:17 pm »
Where did You find the cloth snake skin? Looks like that smelly one I used from Florida on My bow. Even with 4 coats of Poly, I can still smell reptile...LOL..

Well I don't want to violate the rules with a link but if you search for "safari snakeskin cloth" you will find it online.  On a popular fabric site it's currently on sale for $6.44 a yard!  Order 2 yards and that's 11 or 12 bows.
Thanks,
Rob - Wexford, PA

"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe". - Abe Lincoln

Offline PAHunter

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2014, 03:44:42 pm »
 >:( :( :o :-[ :-\>:( :( :o :-[ :-\>:( :( :o :-[ :-\>:( :( :o :-[ :-\>:( :( :o :-[ :-\>:( :( :o :-[ :-\>:( :( :o :-[ :-\   :) ;)
Well Badger you were wright and I was wrong, imagine that.  ;)  Once I braced that bow it was at a bit over 50#!  And one side was much weaker than the other.  So I unbraced it and took wood from the stiffer side to even it out.  However even that brief brace and test robbed the bow of a lot of reflex and speed I'm sure.   :(  I just went too far with just the tiller tree and not bracing the bow as I'm used to.   

This is a new tiller shape I was going for.  8'' at the tips are stiff and the middle is bending a lot but the fades look quite stiff.  I think I overdid it.  What do you think about the tiller?  It freaks me out because I'm used to more bend in the fades but I was tryign something new.  Please feel free to tear it apart, I want to learn as much as possible. 

Now it looks like the bow is going to end up in the mid to high 40s so I probably won't take drastic measures before finishing it up.  But I will finish it up right.

Another question I have is how do you shoot a bow in?  Do you start when it is at full draw or befoer that in the tillering process?  What all are you looking for; for example is limb timing part of it and how can that be judged?  I'd really like to learn more about this. 

I also added a handle.  I put my hand in my shooting position and outline the top of my finger and thumb.  Then I rasp out the hand groove until it feels good.  Next I cut a shelf with a hacksaw blade every 1mm adn then you insert the blade and bend it and they all pop out, kinda neat.  last I finsh it off with a lighter rasp.
Thanks,
Rob - Wexford, PA

"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe". - Abe Lincoln

Offline PAHunter

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2014, 03:51:22 pm »
wow, I'm looking at the last pic of the bow bending ont he tiller tree before I braced it.  It just does not show the drastic limb imbalance that I saw when I first braced it.  I wonder if that is just from the difference of the string position from the leather cups to actual nocks. 
Thanks,
Rob - Wexford, PA

"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe". - Abe Lincoln

Offline PAHunter

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #64 on: March 08, 2014, 12:31:43 am »
I took some shavings from the fades and used a rasp to take the stiff outter thirds to make them lighter but still stiff.  Then I gave it a rest to start digging into the bark of a brand new old osage stave.  :)  Maybe this will make a fine bow to give away, one of my favorite things to do in this hobby.

In these trials I have some potentially very good news!  I made my first sinew backed osage last year and a month after making it ended up at 55# and shot about 160 FPS.  However I had a 52#er that shot the same so I've been using that.  After 6 months of drying I tested the bow and it's 64# @ 28!!  I signifigantly lightened the outter thirds and lost no poundage.  I can't wait to flight test this gal and see where she comes in.  next weekend I should be able to do that.  I may have an elk hunter after all!   ;D :D  Some pics of this bow are below.
Thanks,
Rob - Wexford, PA

"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe". - Abe Lincoln

Offline Badger

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #65 on: March 08, 2014, 04:16:30 am »
   Great, you needed some good news.

Offline SLIMBOB

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2014, 10:27:13 am »
I know this may run counter to what some say, but stringing them early will help eliminate the "under weight" problem.  I will get my short string on one as early as I can.  I want it floor tillered well so there are no weak spots, and I want the two limbs close to each other in weight.  I then check it with the long string to make sure it's close.  If so I string it with 0" brace height.  Basically just a taught string with some pressure applied.  I pull it a couple of inches and look at the tiller.  Address the stiff areas and check it again.  When it looks good, I check the weight.  (just at a few inches).  I'm typically very heavy at this point, but I know where I'm at.  I'll then cinch it up a little tighter, maybe 1-2 inches and check it again.  It's been my experience that the set comes from over stressing a limb in some way, either a hingey spot pulled to far, or simply drawing one too far too early.  I don't do either of these things.  Little steps an inch or two at a time.  A lot of wood still comes off the belly at this point and if the limbs are even, any compressed wood ends up on the floor.  I wont say you cant miss weight doing it this way, as some trouble spots can still rear their ugly head later, but it will greatly increase the likelihood of hitting what you are shooting for.
I would prefer that I could floor tiller, gauge it correctly, string it and it's near perfect, but I've missed far too many doing that, especially early on in my bow making.  Truth is, I now can gauge it better at floor tiller and might not start at 0 inches.  Might start at 3 or 4 inches and still be heavy when I brace it.  I get them floor tillered evenly and get a string on it early.
Been following from the start.  I like what you've done!
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Offline Badger

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2014, 10:40:43 am »
     I personally don't like a long string. I know a lot of guys are successful with it so I won't say it is wrong to use one. But I also like to brace them heavy. At least 10# heavy at first brace 15 is not a problem. Get them nice and even at floor tiller, low brace, even them up some more and then proceed.

Offline PAHunter

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2014, 11:03:13 am »
Thank you!  That makes sense guys.  I think my biggest flaw in the past is bracing bow too much.  I'm a computer guy and can be very analytical.  I love to draw the bow on a tiller stick and run a 6'' piece of wood along the belly to carefully evaluate it.  As if I'm looking for some formula for a perfect bow and If I just try harder I'll get this one right.  But I think my trying, and keeping the bow drawn/braced even at a fairly high weight was doing more damage than I realized. 

I like the idea of starting with a 0'' brace and working it out.  In fact I remember Blackhawk doing that exact thing in his garage years ago when I was brand new at this.  Many of the little things I saw him do come back to me in "ah ha" moments where they finally make sense.  ;) 

At the same time I'll try to get the bow down to 10-15# over with floor tillering and long string.  I think I was bracing it at much higher than that in the past. 

I missed the target weight by a good amount but this was a great learning experience which is more important than any one finished bow!  Thanks again for all the input!!
Thanks,
Rob - Wexford, PA

"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe". - Abe Lincoln

Offline Badger

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2014, 01:28:26 pm »
  You still may have a good shooter there, ballance out the limbs and try not to pull it very far until the limbs are ballanced. Then put the bow in a cawl reflexing it into a nice r/d shape without the deflex. Maybe put in 3 1/2" reflex and heat treat the limbs. Slowly tiller it back out, you should need too much. It might feel heavy after heat treating but I would just go ahead and brace it.

Offline killir duck

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #70 on: March 08, 2014, 02:42:34 pm »
I don't use a long string much either, I just use it to start out with to make sure my limbs are somewhat even and to see if theres any major hinges
PRIMITIVE ARCHERY what other way can you play with sticks and rocks all day and not look like a little kid

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Offline kleinpm

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #71 on: March 08, 2014, 03:15:21 pm »
I took some shavings from the fades and used a rasp to take the stiff outter thirds to make them lighter but still stiff.  Then I gave it a rest to start digging into the bark of a brand new old osage stave.  :)  Maybe this will make a fine bow to give away, one of my favorite things to do in this hobby.

In these trials I have some potentially very good news!  I made my first sinew backed osage last year and a month after making it ended up at 55# and shot about 160 FPS.  However I had a 52#er that shot the same so I've been using that.  After 6 months of drying I tested the bow and it's 64# @ 28!!  I signifigantly lightened the outter thirds and lost no poundage.  I can't wait to flight test this gal and see where she comes in.  next weekend I should be able to do that.  I may have an elk hunter after all!   ;D :D  Some pics of this bow are below.

Even your current build is perfectly fine for elk. One thing I have noticed on previous hunts is that after carrying a heavy pack my shoulders get beat down and I am not as accurate with heavy bows. Just something to think about.

Patrick

Offline bubby

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #72 on: March 08, 2014, 03:23:48 pm »
not a long string fan myself, I get my long string so there is zero slack in it and get to brace as soon as possible, like badger said you probably still have a elk killer there, remember a razor sharp head and shot placement are the key ;)
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
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Offline PAHunter

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #73 on: March 09, 2014, 01:13:41 am »
@Steve: Thanks for the tips man.  I decided to take the tips shorter as well.
@Killerd: Sounds like I’m should give floor tillering some more TLC ;)
@Patrick: Thanks man, that’s good to hear!  I like my 52#er shooting a bit under 160 FPS but I would just feel so much more comfortable with something a tad faster.  I can see the difference between that and the fiberglass traditional bows at the range and it messes with your mind.    I should have 2 solid shooters already.  I’ll have some fun with this one now and see if I get lucky and end up with a shooter! 
@bubby: “a razor sharp head and shot placement are the key” I’m with you 100% on that brother.  I’ve been working hard on my shooting for the past 2 months.  Got a 200 on the 30 target indoor 3D course last time!  The targets go to 34 yards, didn’t miss a single one!  And best of all I feel that I still have a ton of room to improve.  I’ll see how I shoot with the 64#er.  If accuracy suffers much I won’t hesitate to go lower.  My back is very strong though so I think I may be ok.  Thanks for the tips! 

A learning experience is much more valuable than any single bow so I decided to take this journey a bit further; so hold on to your seats!  ;)  First I made another form that should give several inches of reflex to the static tips.  Then I cut 2’’ from both ends to up the poundage a good chunk.  Now it’s a party!
Thanks,
Rob - Wexford, PA

"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe". - Abe Lincoln

Offline PAHunter

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Re: CO Elk Osage Bow Build Along
« Reply #74 on: March 09, 2014, 04:25:42 am »
This type of bend is new for me but exciting!  It's late so I'll string her up tomorrow and see where that takes me.    :)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 04:34:35 am by PAHunter »
Thanks,
Rob - Wexford, PA

"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe". - Abe Lincoln