Do you guys heat treat your trade points?

[artcher1]

No, the double beveled tanto point is to prevent "deviation of penetration". Dr. Ed Ashby words, not mine. I was shooting deer and the arrow deviated or planed inside the deer. So Dr. Ashby suggested I double bevel the tanto tip. Problem solved! Art

[Mesophilic]

No, the double beveled tanto point is to prevent "deviation of penetration". Dr. Ed Ashby words, not mine. I was shooting deer and the arrow deviated or planed inside the deer. So Dr. Ashby suggested I double bevel the tanto tip. Problem solved! Art

Dang I love the internet,  never would've thought of this solution.  And to hear it came from Ed Ashby...

[Hawkdancer]

Art,
I believe the saying is something like "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"!  Can we copy your point designs?  Thanks!
Hawkdancer

[Mesophilic]

Can we copy your point designs?  Thanks!

Well this is the internet, they're probably alrrady in production in China by now.  But if he'd be so kind as to post dimensions and maybe draw us a blue print it would go alot smoother 

[artcher1]

Sure Hawkdancer, you more than welcome to copy my points.

You're right Dieselcheese, you would think there would be something on the market by now. I posted these on the old PA message some years ago. Most of my points run anywhere from 1" to 1 1/8" wide and up to 3" long...….Art

[Knoll]

I much prefer the single bevel over the double bevel Timbo. Easier to sharpen, and IMO, penetrates better than a double bevel blade.
You do need to tanto point the single bevel blade using a double bevel design. Like this...……..

That point exudes D E A T H.

[Todd Mathis]

I've been playing around with trade points made from thin stock high carbon blade steel.  I tried heat treating with the same methods I'd use for a knife.  Genetally heating just a little bit above non magnetic, and quenching in oil or brine.  Temper in a toaster oven.

I've been experiencing a lot of warping out of the quench.  If I grind bevels pre heat treat, I'm guaranteed warping.  If I just cut and shape, and do the grinding post heat treat I still get a great deal of warping.  Probably various reason for this, uneven heating is one as it's hard to deal with such little blades in the forge.  Could also be that they aren't entering the quench properly aligned for the same reason and cooling one side faster.

Anyway, I'm asking this question because, is it really necessary to heat treat points?  Am I over thinking/working a simple concept?

I'm wondering if heat treating can do much to improve a high carbon steel head.   But then again, trade points are new to me.  Why would you want to heat treat trade points.  How thin are they?  Curious...

[Mesophilic]

I'm wondering if heat treating can do much to improve a high carbon steel head.   But then again, trade points are new to me.  Why would you want to heat treat trade points.  How thin are they?  Curious...

What set me down this path was reading Dr. Ed Ashby's research on broadheads and penetration.  One of his guidelines is that a broadhead should neither bend or break when it hits bone.  Essentially a spring temper.

The 15N20 steel I'm using is aprox .07 thick and fully annealed, so it will definately bend if it hits something solid.  It also won't take or hold much of an edge in this state, and the edge will roll easily.

I'd have to look it up but I think Ashby recommends a hardness in the low 50's. 

The saw blade points (from old saw blades mentioned above) are probably already at the perfect hardness.  If they were much harder it would be almost impossible to cut by hand with a hacksaw, and based on his difficulty of finding rhe perfect hacksaw blade for the job they are definitely at a good tough spring tempering

Many modern files, saw blades, and tools made in China are done from low quality metal and case hardened.  Probably won't take a heat treating at all.

I'm able to take the warp out of some of the points by clamping them to steel in a reverse position in the tempering oven, but it's tedious and time consuming.

[Mesophilic]

Here's a couple of last year's points made from .09 15n20.   I had to drill holes to get the weight down from 200 grains to 150 grains to get my arrow weight and spine where I wanted them.  The edge performs very well, even in the broadhead sand pit at at the archery range.

[artcher1]

Awesome heads Dieselcheese! I developed a tangless system for some of my heads. It helps reduce weight and/or allows me to make a larger head and still make weight...…….Art

[Mesophilic]

Awesome heads Dieselcheese! I developed a tangless system for some of my heads. It helps reduce weight and/or allows me to make a larger head and still make weight...…….Art

I was looking at archer1's tang-less points above.  How do you guys attach them?

I'm not very good at cutting slots in the shafts yet.  There's usually a little play or slop, or they aren't completely parallel to the shaft.  To make up for this I use a gap filling epoxy made by mixing a slow cure epoxy with silica powder, this thickens it up like cake icing.  Sometimes I add a little charcoal powder to at least make it look like pine pitch glue. Then after the point is in place I shim it with little bits of bamboo skewer to align it properly within my sloppy slot.  Once the epoxy is cured I wrap the shaft with sinew, sand it smooth, and paint over it to weatherproof  a bit.

Would this process work without a tang?

[artcher1]

First off, I only use my tangless broadheads on hardwood shafts or hardwood foots and hardwood conical inserts (for cane/bamboo shafts). I first taper the shaft, glue on a matching (in weight) field point and shoot the arrow to make sure it's suitable for a broadhead. Then I remove the field point and cut in a slot to the depth of 1". After that I groove the next 1/2" using a chisel made from a saw blade (metal is the same thickness as my blades). I'll bring up a pic, but you'll have to look close to see the groove....Art