Author Topic: Question about board grain and backings  (Read 4466 times)

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Offline smithaw

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Question about board grain and backings
« on: January 10, 2014, 11:36:31 pm »
Hi guys, got a quick question.  I recently finished watching Dean Torges' Hunting the Bamboo-Backed Bow, and am interested in making one.  I have a reliable bamboo source, but have some concerns about the belly wood.  My local lumber supplier has a relatively limited supply of hardwoods in inventory, but can order just about anything.  Unfortunately, I'll have no choice but to purchase whatever boards come in, regardless of their grain pattern.  My question then is, is there any particular concerns about the grain in the belly wood stock in bows with substantial backings, like bamboo?  In Dean's video he mentions that quarter-sawn, flat-sawn, and rift-sawn wood will all make good belly stock, but he makes no mention of whether or not there is a need for end-to-end continuous grain like would be utilized in board self-bows.  Is a board with grain run-off acceptable for these bows?  There is a fairly significant minimum order required, so before I drop a healthy bit of money on them, I want to be sure the majority can be put to use.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Question about board grain and backings
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2014, 12:04:24 am »
You will be taking your chances relying on the lumberman to order your bow wood. You can order an osage or ipe stave from one of our sponsors or advertisers that were cut as bow wood. If you have something to trade ask on the Trading Post.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline echatham

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Re: Question about board grain and backings
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2014, 12:09:30 am »
You would probably be better off buying from another Bowyer who knows what makes good bow wood.  I know theres a few guys around here could help you out.

Offline VicNova

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Re: Question about board grain and backings
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2014, 01:59:24 am »
I would try just buying a red oak board at Lowes or home-depot and then gluing it into a reflex. I have made many hickory backed redoak board-bows pulling 50#-60# and they were, and still are, great bows. I imagine bamboo backing would make an even better bow.
Ypsilanti,  Michigan

mikekeswick

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Re: Question about board grain and backings
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2014, 03:52:54 am »
I would try just buying a red oak board at Lowes or home-depot and then gluing it into a reflex. I have made many hickory backed redoak board-bows pulling 50#-60# and they were, and still are, great bows. I imagine bamboo backing would make an even better bow.

Why would it make a better bow?
Using a bamboo backing on red oak is almost asking for trouble much better to back it with maple or ash. Or indeed just get one with straight grain to start with!
As for your belly wood - my experience of letting others order wood for you is not good. I advise against it if at all possible. As has been mentioned try trading for some suitable wood.
Belly wood boards don't need to be flawlessly straight, you can get away with 'dodgy' grain but stay away from swirls and any knots.

Offline adb

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Re: Question about board grain and backings
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2014, 10:24:06 am »
I agree. Sawyers are not bowyers. I've had lumber merchants send me 'bow wood' that was nothing more than fire wood. If you can't see pics or video of the wood before you order, move on.

Offline Wooden Spring

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Re: Question about board grain and backings
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2014, 12:46:54 pm »
Meh... I make great bows from "questionable" wood all the time and I haven't had an issue yet. I use 1/8" thick hickory glued over quarter sawn red oak, OR I use the same 1/8" hickory over jatoba. Sure, make sure you get the straightest and clearest grain possible, but if you're like me, getting quality staves is impossible, and locating a perfect board is next to impossible. Just get the best you can, and make your bow from it.

Most folks on here will also try to tell you that you can't make a bow from dimensions. That's not true. I've made around a dozen last year to the dimensions I've drawn up below. Sure, every piece of wood is different, but you're not going to make just one bow, (none of us ever do) so after you build a couple, you'll get an idea of how each bow is going to turn out with any given dimensions. The dimensions below will yield a bow within 8 pounds of what is listed, and need very little wood removed during tillering.... At least, they have with me. 

I'm not saying you need to build the one below, I'm just saying that you don't need to be discouraged from building a bow JUST because you don't have the perfect piece of wood. That perfect piece of wood doesn't exist anyway! Just build something! :o)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 01:00:07 pm by hlstanley »
"Everything that moves shall be food for you..." Genesis 9:3

Offline bubby

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Re: Question about board grain and backings
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2014, 01:18:56 pm »
I don't think anyone discouraged him from using ? wood, all they said was , pick your own wood out or have a bowyer do it, and get the best grain that you can, I have got great staves from guys on this site, don't know why it's impossible to find good ones for you
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
The few the proud the 27🏹

Offline Wooden Spring

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Re: Question about board grain and backings
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2014, 01:54:11 pm »
I don't think anyone discouraged him from using ? wood, all they said was , pick your own wood out or have a bowyer do it, and get the best grain that you can, I have got great staves from guys on this site, don't know why it's impossible to find good ones for you

Well, I wasn't saying that someone discouraged him on this particular post. I said that because when I started out many moons ago, folks discouraged me because I had less than perfect boards.

Great staves are impossible for me for a couple reasons...
First and foremost, I'm cheap. Not by choice, but by necessity, and I can't afford the asking price for good staves these days.
Next, where I live in North Georgia, there's not a whole lot of woods for me to cut down. But I can buy them in boards in Atlanta, so why go through the trouble anyway?
Finallly, I don't like working with staves, and I don't like the way the finished bows look. I used to be an architect, and I like things to look straight and true when I'm done with them, and stave bows... Well... Aren't straight. And when I am actually presented with a stave, I look at it to try to see how I can best cut a board out of it, and I usually can. Especially osage! They make great boards!
"Everything that moves shall be food for you..." Genesis 9:3

Offline John D

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Re: Question about board grain and backings
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2014, 01:57:24 pm »
I see it's post #1; Welcome to PA! 

I think most of the advice here is to encourage you to "stack the deck" in favor of your bow, rather than discourage you. 

Do you live pretty remote?  My strategy: I drive to a lumber supplier in another town and they let me pick through the stack till I find a board I want (as long as  I stack it up neatly when I'm done  ;D  )   Works good for me, but I have a few to choose from here in the Boise area. 

Can't wait to see your bow!

John D.

Boise

Offline bubby

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Re: Question about board grain and backings
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2014, 06:39:23 pm »
no problem hlstanley, i'm "frugal"too ::), most guys just want newbies to get their best shot at a finished bow and the best way for that is get the best materials you can, I was in construction for over 25 years and I know how most architects like straight lines, but I've worked for some where a house only had one square corner and lots of round walls, so to each his own I make more board bows than stave bows too, if the op is interested in staves there is invasive stuff like Chinese sumac that makes pretty good bows, better than red oak for sure, heck some people will pay you to take that stuff out, bub
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
The few the proud the 27🏹