Working with rawhide

[Loneviking]

I'm working on my first bow, a Red Oak Molly that I decided to back with rawhide.  The build along I'm working from backed the bow with rawhide, and it looked fairly easy.  WRONG!

This darn stuff, if it dries out too much it's too stiff to work or cut.  If it's wet its hard to get the glue (Titebond 2) to absorb into it, and still tough to trim as even wet I can't get it stretched out enough to figure dimensions.  I glued one working limb up and after two days took a look.  The rawhide is glued tight---including the sides and pretty much all the way around the belly as well!    And after 2 days in a warm house it's still a bit damp and the top of the hide on the back has little ripples on it.  The rawhide is glued down tight and flat but it sure did spread out more than I thought it would. 

Anyway, I'm betting my belt sander can take it down and shape things up, but any tips for working with this stuff?  I have the other working limb to do next and I'm thinking that there's something I'm missing...   

[wood_bandit 99]

Haven't worked with rawhide but I did back a few bows with cotton and linen and you get it wet and just put thin glue on the backing then size the back of the bow then add glue to the back of the bow then just stick the backing on and get something to hold it. After that when it is dry, I have heard it takes a week for rawhide, you take a fine toothed rasp and cut the edge where the back meets the sides and then rip or rasp the rest that is on the belly and sides.

[Loneviking]

That's about what I figured I'd have to do, either rasp or the belt sander.  It would be nice if I didn't have to take that sort of time, but I guess it goes with the territory.   A week?  Oh well, I'm not in a huge hurry and I've still got the other working limb to do.

[mwosborn]

What are you using for your rawhide?  I have used deer rawhide I process myself.  When it is dried out it is about like construction paper - easy to cut with scissors.  I cut it just a bit wider than the limb and to length.  Soak it in some cool water just long enough to get it good and flexible.  Lay it flat and spread the glue out on it (I use titebond III) with my finger.  Lay it on the bow and position it.  Work out any air bubbles and the wrap it lightly with an ace bandage.  After a couple of hours I carefully remove the ace and let it finish drying.  The next day I trim the edge with a new sharp blade in my utility knife.  Maybe hit it with a bit of sandpaper if need it.  This method is simple and gives decent results.

There are several how-to's with nice video/pics on several methods of putting on rawhide.  You could try a search on here, you-tube, TG, etc.  good luck.

[Bryce]

1. Lightly rough up the back of the bow.

2. Rehydrate rawhide in warm. Not hot water.

3. Size the back of the bow with your glue of choice (PVA or hide glue).

4. Once your rawhide is pliable pat it dry with a towel.

5. Place the rawhide on the back of the bow and work out the bubbles.

6. Wrap the rawhide with bicycle inner tubes or and ace bandage. Anything to hold it snug to the back.
Start at the handle.

7. Once dry remove excess with a knife or razor then sand the edges clean.

Then your all done:)

[randman]

I've only used the Dean Torges method where you use hide glue, only moisten the hide enough to get it flexible, prime coat the bow with glue, do the same with the hide. apply the hide and work it from grip to tip with a heated veneer hammer and/or a clothes iron set on low to help keep the hide glue warm while ironing out bubbles etc. It may slide and move a little bit but when the glue starts to gel and grab you know immediately. No wrapping involved and once the glue sets and is gelling, the still soft hide can be trimmed off the sides with a sharp knife. The hide hasn't soaked up enough water to shrink much at all so trimming it while still damp is not a problem and if you end up with bubbles or air voids you can pierce and reheat the area with the warm iron to reactivate the hide glue and get it to stick. Neat and simple, goes on like iron on veneer tape.  Can't do that with titebond.
I got perfect results the first time I tried this method. I don't have a veneer hammer but I used a 5" long strip of 1/4 in. thick aluminum with rounded edges to burnish it and a clothes iron for heat.
Do a google search for Dean Torges rawhide and it'll be the first thing that pops up.

[steve b.]

I've tried the Dean Torges method but can't get the iron thing to work.  I think the one iron I have gets too hot even on low and wrinkles the  rawhide before I can smooth out the glue.  I would experiment with irons except I think I have a better way now--I just use my finger.  I would think that using Titebond would make rawhiding the easiest thing in the world but I use hideglue so you cannot just put the glue on and wrap it.

Yesterday I did another rawhide backing smoothing out with just a finger and it worked great:

You size the bow and the damp rawhide.
Start at the handle end, with a heat gun (set on low), and warm 4" of the rawhide until the the glue softens and the rawhide starts to slide around on the limb.
Dip your bare finger (or finger with one wrap of duct tape) into water and rub the warm rawhide section firmly, smoothing out the glue and aligning the rawhide strip to the limb.
Stop and let it cool long for five minutes.  Now the rawhide is held into place and aligned to the limb.  The water on the finger keeps the finger cooled, the rawhide pliable, and acts like a lubrication so your finger doesn't grab the rawhide and cause it to slide.
Now do the same for the next 4 or 5 inches.  You hold the heat gun in the downstream hand and the damp finger in the other and just move down the limb such that you are moving the heat gun just in time for your finger to come along and smooth things out but not actually heating the finger.
Sometimes I'll quickly put the heat gun down and wet both hands and work an area with thumbs pushing from the limb crown out to the edges.

So far I get no bubbles and no excess glue.  There's no tools involved, its simple and quick and just works well.

[PatM]

A hairdryer is even adequate to warm the rawhide and reactivate the glue using the Torges method. I have also just held the bow close to a woodstove.

[Loneviking]

What are you using for your rawhide?  I have used deer rawhide I process myself.  When it is dried out it is about like construction paper - easy to cut with scissors.  I cut it just a bit wider than the limb and to length.  Soak it in some cool water just long enough to get it good and flexible.  Lay it flat and spread the glue out on it (I use titebond III) with my finger.  Lay it on the bow and position it.  Work out any air bubbles and the wrap it lightly with an ace bandage.  After a couple of hours I carefully remove the ace and let it finish drying.  The next day I trim the edge with a new sharp blade in my utility knife.  Maybe hit it with a bit of sandpaper if need it.  This method is simple and gives decent results.

There are several how-to's with nice video/pics on several methods of putting on rawhide.  You could try a search on here, you-tube, TG, etc.  good luck.

I'm using beef rawhide,  from a dog chew.  Toss it into the bathtub overnight and unroll it in the morning.  The stuff is thick and tuff.
I did lay it out on the back, wrapped it with an Ace wrap and put a piece of railroad iron on top of it.  It's stuck down good, but the hide spread out and covered a lot more of the board than I thought it would.   As for trimming it?  I'll try the utility knife but this stuff is hard!

[Loneviking]

I've only used the Dean Torges method where you use hide glue, only moisten the hide enough to get it flexible, prime coat the bow with glue, do the same with the hide. apply the hide and work it from grip to tip with a heated veneer hammer and/or a clothes iron set on low to help keep the hide glue warm while ironing out bubbles etc. It may slide and move a little bit but when the glue starts to gel and grab you know immediately. No wrapping involved and once the glue sets and is gelling, the still soft hide can be trimmed off the sides with a sharp knife. The hide hasn't soaked up enough water to shrink much at all so trimming it while still damp is not a problem and if you end up with bubbles or air voids you can pierce and reheat the area with the warm iron to reactivate the hide glue and get it to stick. Neat and simple, goes on like iron on veneer tape.  Can't do that with titebond.
I got perfect results the first time I tried this method. I don't have a veneer hammer but I used a 5" long strip of 1/4 in. thick aluminum with rounded edges to burnish it and a clothes iron for heat.
Do a google search for Dean Torges rawhide and it'll be the first thing that pops up.

Whoa, slow down a minute.  I prime coated the bow with no problem.  But in order to get the rawhide to flatten out it had to be wet. I did run both paper towels and cloths down the hide to try to dry it enough to take a prime coat but it didn't seem to take the prime coat to well.  The more it dried, the stiffer it got just like  it didn't have any glue. 

Thanks for the search pointer.  I've got another bow after this one I want to try and I might see what the hide glue does. 

[Loneviking]

I've tried the Dean Torges method but can't get the iron thing to work.  I think the one iron I have gets too hot even on low and wrinkles the  rawhide before I can smooth out the glue.  I would experiment with irons except I think I have a better way now--I just use my finger.  I would think that using Titebond would make rawhiding the easiest thing in the world but I use hideglue so you cannot just put the glue on and wrap it.

Yesterday I did another rawhide backing smoothing out with just a finger and it worked great:

You size the bow and the damp rawhide.
Start at the handle end, with a heat gun (set on low), and warm 4" of the rawhide until the the glue softens and the rawhide starts to slide around on the limb.
Dip your bare finger (or finger with one wrap of duct tape) into water and rub the warm rawhide section firmly, smoothing out the glue and aligning the rawhide strip to the limb.
Stop and let it cool long for five minutes.  Now the rawhide is held into place and aligned to the limb.  The water on the finger keep the finger cooled, the rawhide pliable, and acts like a lubrication so your finger doesn't grab the rawhide and cause it to slide.
Now do the same for the next 4 or 5 inches.  You hold the heat gun in the downstream hand and the damp finger in the other and just move down the limb such that you are moving the heat gun just in time for your finger to come along and smooth things out but not actually heating the finger.
Sometimes I'll quickly put the heat gun down and wet both hands and work an area with thumbs pushing from the limb crown out to the edges.

So far I get no bubbles and no excess glue.  There's no tools involved, its simple and quick and just works well.

Yeah, you're using strips and that might be a better way to go. The problem I'm having is cutting or trimming this stuff.  When wet, it wants to spread out and it's still tough to cut.  If it dries to much it's like cutting iron.  I'll have to try to go for strips next time and experiment around with your method. Thanks for the tip!

[Loneviking]

A hairdryer is even adequate to warm the rawhide and reactivate the glue using the Torges method. I have also just held the bow close to a woodstove.

Man, that little amount of heat?  I live where it can get well over 100 degrees in the summer.  What happens then when I'm using the bow?  The backing falls off? 

[steve b.]

I'm going to try the hair dryer next, for sure.
Definately use strips if you can.  If you want a couple I"ll send them to you.
When I size the rawhide I dip finger into hot (140-150 degree) glue and quickly rub onto the rawhide, pressing firmly and in circles and it just sinks in and give the impression that it is thoroughly impregnated.
Its all great stuff to work with because, as randman said, it gets pliable soon and can be worked almost immediately to some degree.  Its hard as a brick the next day.

[Pappy]

What Bryce said,that's how I do it, very simple. Sometimes I don't even wrap it if the weather is nice and warm,I just keep working it untill glue sets , being sure to work from handle to tip and keep the air bubbles out,I just work them off to the side, sometimes going over it 3 or 4 times as the glue sets, same with snake skins.I use TT3 and it starts to set pretty quick.
   Pappy

[GlisGlis]

still not tried but i think it would be useful to mask the belly with adhesive tape to prevent the glue to spread (like you do on surfboards), than you can use any size of rawskin and cut after glue is set