Trying to set up a router jig for shafts, not working really...

[toomanyknots]

Just as a follow up and a warning to this, I did get a good amount of pretty decent quality 3/8 shafts using my bandsaw (I tried to make a 11/32 jig, but I couldn't get it to stop tearing out little bits here and there from my 7/16 stock, I am thinking it is trying to take off too much wood), I also ruined 2 bandsaw blades in the process, one was a 100 dollar carbide blade. So I would never recommend doing this with a blade you don't wanna absolutely ruin. Both blades were older, but the carbide one was still cutting great, so that hurt. With the router, I have managed to get an ok finish, but the shaft is shaped like bamboo, with big fat spots and little thin spots! What in the heck! Man am I gonna celebrate when (if) I get this stupid thing working. Yall make it look way too easy, (or maybe I am just good at making everything look hard,  )

[Jim Davis]

... With the router, I have managed to get an ok finish, but the shaft is shaped like bamboo, with big fat spots and little thin spots! What in the heck! Man am I gonna celebrate when (if) I get this stupid thing working. Yall make it look way too easy, (or maybe I am just good at making everything look hard,  )

1. The input hole needs to be a sized that just is a snug fit on the corners of the square stock.

2a. The cutter needs to make the round part a size that you can't push into the output hole unless the shaft is spinning.

2b. It should require a fairly firm push on the drill to make the round stock go through the output hole, but no more than a couple of pounds of push. If it's harder than that, the cutter needs to remove more wood. If it is very easy to push the shaft through the output hole, the cutter needs to remove less wood.

3. If you wig-wag back and forth in pushing the drill, the shaft will be bent toward and away from the cutter,  resulting in your bamboo look. (I never get a bamboo look, but unless I am careful to push straight, it does get noticeably easier or harder to push the drill.

hope this helps.

Jim

[toomanyknots]

... With the router, I have managed to get an ok finish, but the shaft is shaped like bamboo, with big fat spots and little thin spots! What in the heck! Man am I gonna celebrate when (if) I get this stupid thing working. Yall make it look way too easy, (or maybe I am just good at making everything look hard,  )

1. The input hole needs to be a sized that just is a snug fit on the corners of the square stock.

2a. The cutter needs to make the round part a size that you can't push into the output hole unless the shaft is spinning.

2b. It should require a fairly firm push on the drill to make the round stock go through the output hole, but no more than a couple of pounds of push. If it's harder than that, the cutter needs to remove more wood. If it is very easy to push the shaft through the output hole, the cutter needs to remove less wood.

3. If you wig-wag back and forth in pushing the drill, the shaft will be bent toward and away from the cutter,  resulting in your bamboo look. (I never get a bamboo look, but unless I am careful to push straight, it does get noticeably easier or harder to push the drill.

hope this helps.

Jim

Thank you once again, it does help. I guess I will try to make another arm and guide holes. I am going to use 5/8 holes to fit 7/16 square stock, and then have it reduced by the router bit to 11/32 hopefully. When I was running it a bit ago, it was like it would be hard to push, and then go really easy, and fast again, and than hard again, and then fast, this is when I got the "bamboo" shape. The entire time I was running the stock straight, it seemed to do it on it's own. I don't know if the 7/16 square was too loose in the 5/8" hole or what. I have a nice burnished finish at least, even if it is on a bamboo shaped shaft, haha. I am going to make another one with two infeed supports, and a screw for adjusting the angle hopefully.

[Jim Davis]

7/16" square is  .6187 across the corners. 5/8" = .626. Ergo, 5/8" is too big.

Furthermore,  you don't need the square bigger than 3/8" for any of the usual arrow diameters. If you make the stock  3/8" square you get more  shafts per board, cut off less with the router AND can use the socket and bolt setup to drive the shaft. Are you a glutton for punishment?

For 3/8" square, you need an input hole that is 33/64".

Jim

[toomanyknots]

7/16" square is  .6187 across the corners. 5/8" = .626. Ergo, 5/8" is too big.

Furthermore,  you don't need the square bigger than 3/8" for any of the usual arrow diameters. If you make the stock  3/8" square you get more  shafts per board, cut off less with the router AND can use the socket and bolt setup to drive the shaft. Are you a glutton for punishment?

For 3/8" square, you need an input hole that is 33/64".

Jim

What I have been doing is doing tests before I cut the shaft blanks, and I guess cutting them a smudge above 7/16 I guess (don't have calipers so I am not sure how much) just until they fit snug in the 5/8th hole. Once I get a good fit, I will cut all the blanks... and then proceed to destroy them!  The bad thing is all I have left is good straight grain wood, I don't have anything left that I don't feel bad to test on, lol. I had problems with the 3/8" blanks when I was using them ending up with flat spots, I was going for a 3/8 diameter end result though. By the way, can you generally substitute one brands drill chuck with another brand? I was thinking of trying to slap in a ryobo 1/2" drill chuck into my craftsman to replace it's 3/8" chuck.

[Jim Davis]

Yes, most chucks use the same thread--it has been 3/8-24 tpi right hand. If your chuck uses a key, put the handle of the chuck, or a rod in one of the holes in the circumference  of the chuck and give the key a smack with a hammer in the direction that turns it in the way that will unscrew it.

If it is a keyless chuck, tighten it on the short arm of a 3/8 Allen wrench then smack the handle of the Allen wrench as suggested above for the key.

BTW, the technical term for "a litttle" bigger or long is "smidge," which is an abbreviation for "smidgeon."

Thought you would want to know...

Jim

[toomanyknots]

Yes, most chucks use the same thread--it has been 3/8-24 tpi right hand. If your chuck uses a key, put the handle of the chuck, or a rod in one of the holes in the circumference  of the chuck and give the key a smack with a hammer in the direction that turns it in the way that will unscrew it.

If it is a keyless chuck, tighten it on the short arm of a 3/8 Allen wrench then smack the handle of the Allen wrench as suggested above for the key.

BTW, the technical term for "a litttle" bigger or long is "smidge," which is an abbreviation for "smidgeon."

Thought you would want to know...

Jim

Thank you, I will try that today.

[Buckeye Guy]

Before you try to get that chuck off look down it it there may be a screw in the bottom
If there is it is left handed thread and you will need to remove it first

[Jim Davis]

Yes, Buckeyeguy is right. Forgot about that. Very likely if the drill is reversible.

Jim

[toomanyknots]

The drill is reversable, thanks for the heads up guys!

[toomanyknots]

7/16" square is  .6187 across the corners. 5/8" = .626. Ergo, 5/8" is too big.

Furthermore,  you don't need the square bigger than 3/8" for any of the usual arrow diameters. If you make the stock  3/8" square you get more  shafts per board, cut off less with the router AND can use the socket and bolt setup to drive the shaft. Are you a glutton for punishment?

For 3/8" square, you need an input hole that is 33/64".

Jim

Would you think 1/2" infeed would work for 3/8" square stock if I tried to cut my stock a smidgeon to a 64th or so undersized? Would I still be able to easily get 11/32 diameter end result with 23/64 square stock, without having flat spots ya think? I guess I am going to try it, and if not I will order me a 33/64 bit. You think the reason my results suck so bad is because I am not having a snug enough or secure enough fit to my infeed, so the stock is moving around a bunch? I checked and there does seem to be a good amount of play. So I am going to make me up 3 infeed blocks at 1/2", a block at 11/32 for the cut stock to guide through, and then a couple more guide blocks at 1/2" or so to keep the shaft stable. Does this sound ok? Sorry for all the questions, I'm sure your probably gettin tired of em,  . I moved the pivot like you suggested to as close to the router as I could. I was thinking, if I going to use this arm thing with the hole guides, of putting a bolt with a spring at the other end of the arm to where I could twist just a bit on the bolt to move the arm, in order to tune it so to speak.

[Jim Davis]

Would you think 1/2" infeed would work for 3/8" square stock if I tried to cut my stock a smidgeon to a 64th or so undersized? Would I still be able to easily get 11/32 diameter end result with 23/64 square stock, without having flat spots ya think?
ABSOLUTELY
 I guess I am going to try it, and if not I will order me a 33/64 bit. You think the reason my results suck so bad is because I am not having a snug enough or secure enough fit to my infeed, so the stock is moving around a bunch?
AS ABOVE
 I checked and there does seem to be a good amount of play. So I am going to make me up 3 infeed blocks at 1/2", a block at 11/32 for the cut stock to guide through, and then a couple more guide blocks at 1/2" or so to keep the shaft stable.
Does this sound ok? If you have one infeed block at the cutter that just slightly crushes the corners of the stock, more blocks are a waste of effort and a nuisance.

... I was thinking, if I going to use this arm thing with the hole guides, of putting a bolt with a spring at the other end of the arm to where I could twist just a bit on the bolt to move the arm, in order to tune it so to speak.Could be a help.

[toomanyknots]

Would you think 1/2" infeed would work for 3/8" square stock if I tried to cut my stock a smidgeon to a 64th or so undersized? Would I still be able to easily get 11/32 diameter end result with 23/64 square stock, without having flat spots ya think?
ABSOLUTELY
 I guess I am going to try it, and if not I will order me a 33/64 bit. You think the reason my results suck so bad is because I am not having a snug enough or secure enough fit to my infeed, so the stock is moving around a bunch?
AS ABOVE
 I checked and there does seem to be a good amount of play. So I am going to make me up 3 infeed blocks at 1/2", a block at 11/32 for the cut stock to guide through, and then a couple more guide blocks at 1/2" or so to keep the shaft stable.
Does this sound ok? If you have one infeed block at the cutter that just slightly crushes the corners of the stock, more blocks are a waste of effort and a nuisance.

... I was thinking, if I going to use this arm thing with the hole guides, of putting a bolt with a spring at the other end of the arm to where I could twist just a bit on the bolt to move the arm, in order to tune it so to speak.Could be a help.

Thank you once again, I am actually starting to get decent results. I would guess that it was indeed my infeed being way too loose. I did make 3 infeed blocks, but ended up gluing them all into one infeed block anyway. They are 1/2" holes, and fit the 3/8 (or might be slightly under 3/8) pretty good, good enough to use with the drill, but not if I was turning by hand. What I ended up doing for some reason or another is instead of adjusting the router by moving the arm horizontally, I have been adjusting the diameter of the shaft by adjusting the depth of the router bit. So the router bit only touches the stock on the bottom. The only thing is I am still getting all kinds of tear out with the douglas fir.  I am using a straight bit right now, I am going to pick up a rounded bit from home depot in a bit though and try that out. Hopefully the rounded bit will be easier on the douglas fir. The ash I have been doing is pretty good though. Even when I get it adjusted to get a burnished lacquered finish look, it still has little tiny scrape marks in it, which look like if you scratched glass. Which makes sense though, as the top of the router bit is not straight, it is slanted with a point, so I would think it would not leave a perfect finish.

[Jim Davis]

Thank you once again, I am actually starting to get decent results. I would guess that it was indeed my infeed being way too loose. I did make 3 infeed blocks, but ended up gluing them all into one infeed block anyway. Do you beat dead horses too???  Do you carry three spare tires???

They are 1/2" holes, and fit the 3/8 (or might be slightly under 3/8) pretty good, good enough to use with the drill, but not if I was turning by hand. What I ended up doing for some reason or another is instead of adjusting the router by moving the arm horizontally, I have been adjusting the diameter of the shaft by adjusting the depth of the router bit.

So the router bit only touches the stock on the bottom. The only thing is I am still getting all kinds of tear out with the douglas fir.  I am using a straight bit right now, I am going to pick up a rounded bit from home depot in a bit though and try that out. You are getting tearout because you have ignored good advice and have the bit cutting from underneath.Hopefully the rounded bit will be easier on the douglas fir. It might do better  in this stubborn and foolish application.

 The ash I have been doing is pretty good though. Even when I get it adjusted to get a burnished lacquered finish look, it still has little tiny scrape marks in it, which look like if you scratched glass. Which makes sense though, as the top of the router bit is not straight, it is slanted with a point, so I would think it would not leave a perfect finish.

You have been told how to get a perfect finish, but you persist in ignoring that advice. This router setup was not my invention, as I said at the outset. I have found it to work perfectly every time with a straight cutter that is cutting on the side, and at the side of the shaft. You finally came around to my advice on the input hole, EXCEPT for making a long strung-out series of three blocks.

I see no point in further efforts to help. You ask for help and advice, then ignore it. I was a machinist for 10 years and have made parts and machines at home for the last 25 years. I have not been just making up things that I think might work. I have been using a router setup for at least 15 years and have found useful ways to  improve it. You're on your own as far as I'm concerned--though someone else will probably try to help while you reinvent this doweling setup.

[toomanyknots]

Thank you once again, I am actually starting to get decent results. I would guess that it was indeed my infeed being way too loose. I did make 3 infeed blocks, but ended up gluing them all into one infeed block anyway. Do you beat dead horses too???  Do you carry three spare tires???

They are 1/2" holes, and fit the 3/8 (or might be slightly under 3/8) pretty good, good enough to use with the drill, but not if I was turning by hand. What I ended up doing for some reason or another is instead of adjusting the router by moving the arm horizontally, I have been adjusting the diameter of the shaft by adjusting the depth of the router bit.

So the router bit only touches the stock on the bottom. The only thing is I am still getting all kinds of tear out with the douglas fir.  I am using a straight bit right now, I am going to pick up a rounded bit from home depot in a bit though and try that out. You are getting tearout because you have ignored good advice and have the bit cutting from underneath.Hopefully the rounded bit will be easier on the douglas fir. It might do better  in this stubborn and foolish application.

 The ash I have been doing is pretty good though. Even when I get it adjusted to get a burnished lacquered finish look, it still has little tiny scrape marks in it, which look like if you scratched glass. Which makes sense though, as the top of the router bit is not straight, it is slanted with a point, so I would think it would not leave a perfect finish.

You have been told how to get a perfect finish, but you persist in ignoring that advice. This router setup was not my invention, as I said at the outset. I have found it to work perfectly every time with a straight cutter that is cutting on the side, and at the side of the shaft. You finally came around to my advice on the input hole, EXCEPT for making a long strung-out series of three blocks.

I see no point in further efforts to help. You ask for help and advice, then ignore it. I was a machinist for 10 years and have made parts and machines at home for the last 25 years. I have not been just making up things that I think might work. I have been using a router setup for at least 15 years and have found useful ways to  improve it. You're on your own as far as I'm concerned--though someone else will probably try to help while you reinvent this doweling setup.

Well either way I appreciate it, sorry if I somehow offended you.