Update on 120# yew warbow - I don't like to complain, but...

[WillS]

It blew up, didn't it.

Finally got the bloody thing to brace height after hours of arsing about with strings, and the nock split, forcing the string 10 inches down the limb, separating sapwood and heartwood all the way down. 

[toomanyknots]

That sucks so bad! It was looking beautiful! I'm sorry, I know that pain all too well, I hate that.

[Del the cat]

Sorry to hear that, guess we've all been there.
Del

[WillS]

Well it's currently being glued... We'll see what happens.

I find it's always worth listing the positives when something goes wrong (a good half hour after screaming into a pillow of course...)

The bow was 83.5 inches long, so plenty of length to chop off and try again if I need to

The split didn't actually break off anywhere, it started exactly halfway between back and belly, and runs diagonally towards the sapwood but doesn't exit, so there's no trauma of the sapwood apart from right at the nock.

I'm hoping that if I glue it up (I've basically filled the crack with Resintite and clamped shut) then chop off the nock slot (at both ends) before fitting the horn nocks, and then binding tightly with FastFlight or linen and soaking with superglue, everything should be ok.  The tips are fairly stiff anyway, so hopefully there won't be too much stress there, and the Resintite is (according to Del's success anyway!) perfectly capable of handling bend forces. 

Worst case scenario - I chop a chunk off both ends and make a smaller bow (The crack can go through into the horn nock without any problems so I don't lose too much anyway)

Onwards and upwards!

[Del the cat]

That's a great attitude!
Good luck and keep us posted.
"If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same"
I think that certainly applies to bowmaking.

Do you like Kipling?
Can't say I've ever Kippled!

Del

[Heffalump]

I like Kipling Del.....particularly the Manor House cake  ..........(sorry, I'll get me coat) 

John

[WillS]

Update for those interested (in watching a 130lb bow blow up, no doubt!  Car crash TV!)

I've glued the crack as best as possible (resintite glue wedged in as far as possible, and runny superglue along the crack once the resin glue had dried fully)

I've also chopped the tips down to where the string nocks were, and fitted cow horn nocks.  I went true traditional and used side-nocks, as this is supposed to be a Mary Rose replica!  The last time I used side nocks they split fairly quickly, but that was with Buffalo horn and not cow horn - hopefully these will last a bit longer!

Anyway, here's some fruity side nock pics, and you should be able to see where the crack runs.  I'm hoping beyond hope that the compound structure of wood, epoxy and horn will keep the crack solid at the tip, and the glue will stop it opening lower down, but we'll see what happens... gulp!

If it was easy... everybody would do it, right?



Here you can see the crack running down right in the middle of the sapwood



And here the crack running down the back of the bow is visible.  I'm not too worried about the longitudinal crack, it's the other one that will have me wearing an extra pair of underwear when it goes back on the tiller...


I'm so tempted to polish, sand and oil the bow at this stage and hang it on the wall.  It's gorgeous at the moment, easily the nicest looking bow I've ever made.  I hate the thought that if I try and finish tillering it the bow will break on me.   

[toomanyknots]

Very pretty character in that horn. I would be scared too though with the repair. Just because of the repair, I would think it would be a good idea to tiller and exercise the crap out of it, as if it's gonna blow then, it would of blown eventually. (Although that is easy for me to say, especially not having paid for the stave or made the bow, if I was in your shoes in actuality, I don't know what I would do, especially with the high price of yew.) Whether it goes or not, it sure looks damn nice,  .

[WillS]

Cheers dude.  I had to scrap the nocks after all, as for some reason they just didn't work.  Copied the MR nocks to the millimeter and the loops kept slipping round to the back.  I recut the nocks to normal ones for tillering but they're so mangled now I'll have to pull them off and start again.

As for the bow itself, it's taken 160# on the tiller now with no movement or noise from the repair so that looks good. 

Only one small issue remains...Still can't brace it!  No matter what I try, the string stretches every single time.  It's on the wall as a "no clue what to do, cant even finish it!" display piece.  Ridiculous waste but there we go.  Maybe I'll drag it along to a EWBS shoot and see if somebody like Joe can shed some light on it.  I've never been beaten like this before!

[Marc St Louis]

I have had that happen before and just glued the split back together without any problems.  As for the string stretch, just use 14 or 16 strands of FF and you should be ok

[WillS]

I am using 16 strands of FF... haha!

Del's suggested to me that I go for Dyna Flight, so I'm gonna make one more 16 strand FF string, and if it doesn't work I'll buy some Dyna.

[toomanyknots]

Cheers dude.  I had to scrap the nocks after all, as for some reason they just didn't work.  Copied the MR nocks to the millimeter and the loops kept slipping round to the back.  I recut the nocks to normal ones for tillering but they're so mangled now I'll have to pull them off and start again.

As for the bow itself, it's taken 160# on the tiller now with no movement or noise from the repair so that looks good. 

Only one small issue remains...Still can't brace it!  No matter what I try, the string stretches every single time.  It's on the wall as a "no clue what to do, cant even finish it!" display piece.  Ridiculous waste but there we go.  Maybe I'll drag it along to a EWBS shoot and see if somebody like Joe can shed some light on it.  I've never been beaten like this before!

I thought fast flight and dyna flight were the same hmpe stuff? Shoot, if dyna flight is better and cheaper, than I might move to that than. FF is pretty expensive really. Have you tried an endless loop string with little to no twist? It makes a big difference for me, when comparing a flemish, although when both are broke in it ain't too big of a difference I think. I totally feel the pain of unexplainable string problems though, I have had a bunch of those!  Do you have a tiller tree? I use my stringer on my tiller tree on bows that are too long for me to brace, I got a notch like at 36" or so for the stringer to slide in, and then I will brace the bow as quick as I can and undo the stringer. It is definitely nerve racking though, I am always thinking the tiller is gonna split and send the string up at my neck or some other chaos is gonna happen, etc. One time I was stringing a heavy bow like that (had to have all my weight on the string), and the string slipped off the nock and my jaw came smack down on the edge of a 2 x 4 that is part of the support of my wooden tiller tree I used to use. That sucks about the nocks, they were looking nice. I have never tried side nocks before, but yours looked quite nice. I guess though, the more you build, the more you learn, so the only thing you can do is keep building.

[Marc St Louis]

I am using 16 strands of FF... haha!

Del's suggested to me that I go for Dyna Flight, so I'm gonna make one more 16 strand FF string, and if it doesn't work I'll buy some Dyna.

Well that is odd.  I've used a 12 strand FF on a 150# bow without any problems and without any stretch. 

[toomanyknots]

I am using 16 strands of FF... haha!

Del's suggested to me that I go for Dyna Flight, so I'm gonna make one more 16 strand FF string, and if it doesn't work I'll buy some Dyna.

Well that is odd.  I've used a 12 strand FF on a 150# bow without any problems and without any stretch.

I've used a 16 strand on a 140# too, no stretch problems at all, it is good stuff really. Are you using a hitch knot? If so, maybe it is slipping?

[meanewood]

It's weird when people describe problems that you've had yourself.

I guess we all learn the same way, advise and trial and error.

Newton said 'we see far because we stand on the shoulders of giants'

Ive 'stood' on Marc's and Dels shoulders a few times but nothing beats trial and error with a thick skull like mine!

One tip I can give is when making a heavy bow, make the string first (overlong) and use it as your long string and then adjust to short string and tiller with it. That way it gets fully pre-stretched before final adjustment.

As for side nocks, I use bowyers knots on both ends. It can be a bit tricky un -stringing it but once some of the wax has worn off the knot, it gets easier if you twist it out. I'm of the opinion that side nocks and bowyers knots were made for each other. To use a loop in a side nock or a bowyers knot in an all round nock don't work all that well!