Author Topic: Horsebow shape without the horn?  (Read 19391 times)

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Offline PatM

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2013, 11:40:05 am »
Not a great idea to go all boo in a first attempt. You have to tiller during the glue up since there is no margin for belly material removal.
 I'm not really sure why everyone seems to be going off in random directions when I have already posted two fairly simple proven solutions to the problem.....

Offline mullet

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2013, 04:41:03 pm »
 James Parker and Vinson Minor have been making that style for years, bamboo backed. Also there is a build along article in Primitive Archer several years ago on building one that is sinew backed.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2013, 06:59:10 pm »
Shoot, I've made a bunch of manchu style bows out of simply red oak, with red oak siyahs. No set back handles or reflex though.
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline bubby

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2013, 08:12:58 pm »
mullet do you remember what issue
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
The few the proud the 27🏹

Offline PatM

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2013, 08:45:49 pm »
http://www.hornbow.com/pa1098.html
 Here is the article. Keep in mind few who have tried this design are happy with it. It's a bit of an "all show and no go design". You are much better off with a slightly longer design with lower angled and more efficient levers.

Offline bubby

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2013, 08:49:13 pm »
thank's pat
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
The few the proud the 27🏹

Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #36 on: November 03, 2013, 08:51:32 pm »
I just had to explain to someone on the SCA "Period Archery" email list that a Martin Bushmaster is NOT "all wood" just because he an see the wood grain...several other people clearly didn't realize that they make CLEAR glass. UGH.  I'm thinking this may be a losing battle...
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 11:15:42 pm by kevinsmith5 »

Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2013, 11:27:03 pm »
Could I roughly follow that design from the article but back with bamboo? I mainly ask because I have maple and bamboo aplenty but not so much sinew....

mikekeswick

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2013, 04:19:03 am »
There is still plenty of theoretical stuff being tossed around on this thread. We all still hear of the fantastic capabilities of horn but it's rarely like that in real life.
Horn is never actually compressed 8x farther than wood and chrysaling of horn is frequently reported.
 I don't think it's incorrect to say that wood "resists" compression more than horn.  It may collapse sooner but that doesn't mean it's not resisting more than something that just gives, even if it does bounce back.

  Nothing quite makes a person lose credibility about these style of bows more than the mention of Sitka spruce siyah's.
 ;D

Compression is a description of the force that is acting on a material.
Sure horn will chrysal once it has been pushed beyond it's ability to be compressed - right after it has reduced in length by around 8%.
It has the ability to store more energy than wood because of it's cell structure.

The point I was making is that horn will bend a whole lot further than wood can and it has the capability to store more energy during this bending than any wood can.
This is directly related to the original question because he was asking if it's possible to make a hornbow without the horn essentially - the simple answer is no.
The longer answer is that you can make a wood bow that will, to the untrained eye, look SIMILAR to a hornbow. However it is impossible to make a dimensionally correct hornbow out of wood and still have it being drawn more than 12 inches because the materials have vastly different limits.
My advice would be to forget the hornbow (unless you want to make one) and just make either a wood only recurve or a sinew backed recurve.

Offline PatM

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2013, 09:07:03 am »
I disagree. Many of the longer hornbow styles are perfectly attainable in wood and sinew and the unbraced bow will show just as much reflex as those bows typically have and stand as much draw as a person is likely to use.
 A typical hornbow uses up about 6.5% of its compression capability just getting to brace height. I think you're giving the impression that all of that 8% is available in actual delivered stored energy.
 The dismal performance of 98% of recent hornbows shows that there is far more to the picture than just bending s piece of horn a long way.

Offline }|{opukc

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2013, 10:17:26 am »
Now you can see all 16 parts of the osage horsebow. #1-16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1YJ03Voixg
Best regards from Bulgaria - George

Offline Olanigw (Pekane)

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2013, 11:21:12 am »
bamboo belly.
Korean infantry couldn't afford hornbows.  Prof. Thomas Duverney has written extensively on the subject.
"Good enough" is the enemy of great
PN501018

Offline PatM

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2013, 11:38:26 am »
Actually the Grayson museum has a couple of wood bellied sinew backed bows of Korean origin. They are much longer than the horn based bows but oddly enough still have the tip crossing reflex.

Offline mullet

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2013, 03:10:16 pm »
http://www.hornbow.com/pa1098.html
 Here is the article. Keep in mind few who have tried this design are happy with it. It's a bit of an "all show and no go design". You are much better off with a slightly longer design with lower angled and more efficient levers.

I have to agree, Pat. The two made from osage I shot performed like an old dog.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline kevinsmith5

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Re: Horsebow shape without the horn?
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2013, 06:17:38 pm »
I'm not real sure poor performance will be an issue. These folks haven't ever shot a real horsebow.