Odds of exploding arrows?

[Slackbunny]

Most trad and primitive bows don't have the speed or power to break arrows in that way, so you don't need to worry hardly at all about that unless you are shooting in the warbow weight class.

But the modern compounds do, so don't go putting your arrows through one of them.

Dude
Bows are Bows
Gizmos and gimmicks do not make them better !
I have shot a few thousand shots with cedar arrows through them so called "fast compounds ", They don't appear to me to break anymore wood arrows than my slow Primitive bows do !
Just the opinion of one worthless old nut ,that has been there and done that , take it or leave it !
Good arrows are good arrows and junk is junk !!!

You guys can shoot all the wooden shafts you want out of compound bows, but you won't catch me doing it. And I'll explain why.

Modern bows are much faster, often in the ballpark of 350 fps, whereas over 200 fps is pretty good for a trad bow. There may be a handful of trad bows that have broke the 300 mark, but how many of us are shooting one of them really? The vast majority of trad archers are shooting bows that are right around 200fps give or take.

Its not initially obvious, but some quick calculations reveal that going from a speed of 200fps, to 350fps with the same arrow and draw length, actually triples the force applied to the arrow. That's right, triples.

So unless you're comfortable tripling the force you're putting on them, a wooden arrow spined for a traditional bow should not be shot from a compound of a similar draw weight because the arrow speeds, and thus the force applied to the arrows, is much different.

But I suppose if you spined the shafts specifically for shooting out of higher speed modern bow, then I  suppose it could be made safe. But you would need to take this into account. It is not a good idea to take your regular trad arrows and put them through a compound without verifying how fast the compound is and how stiff those arrows really are. Sure it may work a time or two, it may even work dozens of times, but you're rolling the dice with each shot.

[Bryce]

A 65# arrow is a 65# arrow shot through any bow with or w/o wheels will be fine.

[Joec123able]

Most trad and primitive bows don't have the speed or power to break arrows in that way, so you don't need to worry hardly at all about that unless you are shooting in the warbow weight class.

But the modern compounds do, so don't go putting your arrows through one of them.

Ugh what ??! not true at all ! I had an aluminum arrow fold over through a wooden bow

[Pappy]

aluminum,really  must have been a really weak one. twisted hickory ,point on has nothing to do with speed,it all depends on where you anchor. You can make point on anywhere you want it by moving anchor up or down. As far as speed a 200fps selfbow it is a screamer,as far as selfbows being as capable as modern equipment,well of course they are but still not as fast. Kind of a hijack here,  Sorry, just keep a close eye on the arrow for flaws and make sure it is spined heavy enough and you won't have any problems with the exploding.
   Pappy

[twisted hickory]

aluminum,really  must have been a really weak one. twisted hickory ,point on has nothing to do with speed,it all depends on where you anchor. You can make point on anywhere you want it by moving anchor up or down. As far as speed a 200fps selfbow it is a screamer,as far as selfbows being as capable as modern equipment,well of course they are but still not as fast. Kind of a hijack here,  Sorry, just keep a close eye on the arrow for flaws and make sure it is spined heavy enough and you won't have any problems with the exploding.
   Pappy

Pappy,
Point on does have lots to do with speed. The first adult self bow I made has a point on of 35 yards with a 29" bop arrow, 54 lbs, and a 27 inch draw. when I am anchored at the corner of my mouth. My current shooter when anchored at the same place using the same arrows has a point on of 48 yards. My buddys glass bow with the same shooter (me) 50 yards. I didn't explain I was assuming a consistent normal anchor. True self bows are not quite as fast as modern equipment but close enough for me half of the fun is making it 
Slack bunny,
Comparing compounds to self or glass bows is a diffent animal all together. 
Greg

[Pappy]

 lots of fun and that is all I shoot, have for years.
   Pappy

[Buckeye Guy]

Are we using the new math or the old math to figure this out ? !!
Half eye uses 5/16 dowel shafts I don't , he answered the original question !
 Too many pieces to this puzzle to explain how all the rest of these gimmicks work or don't , so like Pappy said use good arrows that are stiff enough to get the job done and keep a good eye on them ! All is good
Use junk, or not pay attention and all is not so good !
If we are satisfied with the fun we are having then we ain't out chasing speed demons and ghost !
I am having fun so don't knock my way with modern is better , cause it don't get any better than this !
I am sorry if that I helped high jack this thread ,but it is really hard for me to sit by and read misleading info passed on as truth ! I have wasted enough time and energy chasing pipe dreams
Have fun
Guy

[Slackbunny]

A 65# arrow is a 65# arrow shot through any bow with or w/o wheels will be fine.

I hate to be blunt, but that is just plain wrong. I've done the math.

The arrow does not care what the draw weight of the bow is, it only cares about its own acceleration.

A compound bow can take a 60 lb draw and turn that into more arrow speed than a 60 lb trad bow over the same draw length due its mechanical superiority and greater efficiency. This means the arrow has a significantly larger acceleration in a compound than it does in a trad bow.  And since  f=ma, the force applied to that arrow is also increased by the same factor even though the draw weights are the same.

An arrow that has been shot hundreds of times through your 60lb trad bow, may very well fracture when shot from your 60lb compound.

Are we using the new math or the old math to figure this out ? !!
Half eye uses 5/16 dowel shafts I don't , he answered the original question !
 Too many pieces to this puzzle to explain how all the rest of these gimmicks work or don't , so like Pappy said use good arrows that are stiff enough to get the job done and keep a good eye on them ! All is good
Use junk, or not pay attention and all is not so good !
If we are satisfied with the fun we are having then we ain't out chasing speed demons and ghost !
I am having fun so don't knock my way with modern is better , cause it don't get any better than this !
I am sorry if that I helped high jack this thread ,but it is really hard for me to sit by and read misleading info passed on as truth ! I have wasted enough time and energy chasing pipe dreams
Have fun
Guy

I never said modern is better. I love my trad bows more than I could ever love a compound. But the fact is that modern bows are faster, and not just a little faster, a lot faster. This needs to be taken into account if you are going to shoot wooden arrows through it because it directly affects the force that the arrow sees. Most wooden arrows are intended for and spined for use with trad bows. This is not enough to ensure they are strong enough to withstand the compound speeds.

And I am using basic math here. Its just the kinematic equations of distance, time, speed, and acceleration and newton's law, f=ma. This is tried and true stuff, I'm not pulling this out of my ass. I can show you my work if you want.

If you are going to shoot wooden arrows from a compound bow, they need to be stiffer than arrows used for a similar weight trad bow.


Sorry if  I hijacked the thread a bit. I just can't let a safety issue like that go unrecognized. I just made the compound reference in passing to warn him that while those shafts he has are fine for just about any trad bow, they may not be good enough for a compound. And then a few people disagreed with my statement, so I thought i should set the record straight.

[Joec123able]

Slackbunny I don't think any of us are shooting compound contraptions so I don't think we care much about them There was no reason for you to even bring Them up

[Slackbunny]

Slackbunny I don't think any of us are shooting compound contraptions so I don't think we care much about them There was no reason for you to even bring Them up

I'm sure there are a number of people here who shoot a variety of different bows, myself included.

I only brought compounds up in passing to make sure that  hurlbri1 knew that he shouldn't use his trad arrows in them even though they were safe for his trad bows. I never intended it to be anything more than that.

But then I was told that I was wrong, and I knew that wasn't true, and I did not want anyone here to read the thread and then think that it was okay to go back and forth between trad and modern bows using their trad arrows without second thought.

Were it not a safety issue, I wouldn't have pressed the point.

 

[Joec123able]

Slackbunny I don't think any of us are shooting compound contraptions so I don't think we care much about them There was no reason for you to even bring Them up

I'm sure there are a number of people here who shoot a variety of different bows, myself included.

I only brought compounds up in passing to make sure that  hurlbri1 knew that he shouldn't use his trad arrows in them even though they were safe for his trad bows. I never intended it to be anything more than that.

But then I was told that I was wrong, and I knew that wasn't true, and I did not want anyone here to read the thread and then think that it was okay to go back and forth between trad and modern bows using their trad arrows without second thought.

Were it not a safety issue, I wouldn't have pressed the point.

Well this is a primitive archery forum not a compound contraption forum

[Slackbunny]

My posts have all been based on the usage of trad/primitive arrows, so I'm pretty sure I still fit firmly in the category.

I gave a simple, safety-minded piece of advice. That advice was challenged. I defended it to the best of my ability. If you want to get petty about it then I'm done with this thread.

I've made my point. Take it or leave it.

 

[Thesquirrelslinger]

Uuuuuhhhh... (whoever started this thread) Some dowels have grain runout right below where people cut nocks in... and if you shoot it off of a powerful traditional bow it can split out your self nock. Wrap your arrow-shaft about 1/8 inch below the nock with thread, and it won't happen. But don't shoot modern compound arrows out of a primitive bow(especially a longbow.. especially carbons) with a heavy arrowhead, or they will most likely break or bend(if made of metal)... and it can hurt.
Just be smart about shooting stuff. Then you will be fine

[mullet]

Uuuuuhhhh... (whoever started this thread) Some dowels have grain runout right below where people cut nocks in... and if you shoot it off of a powerful traditional bow it can split out your self nock. Wrap your arrow-shaft about 1/8 inch below the nock with thread, and it won't happen. But don't shoot modern compound arrows out of a primitive bow(especially a longbow.. especially carbons) with a heavy arrowhead, or they will most likely break or bend(if made of metal)... and it can hurt.
Just be smart about shooting stuff. Then you will be fine

All kinds of mis information floating around on this thread. Carbons and aluminum arrows shoot real good out of glass bows and all wood bows.

And from a safety stand point, thanks, slackbunny, you are right.  Just make sure your shafts are good, personnally I don't shop for arrows at a hardware store if I am worrieing about one coming apart.

[Thesquirrelslinger]

Uuuuuhhhh... (whoever started this thread) Some dowels have grain runout right below where people cut nocks in... and if you shoot it off of a powerful traditional bow it can split out your self nock. Wrap your arrow-shaft about 1/8 inch below the nock with thread, and it won't happen. But don't shoot modern compound arrows out of a primitive bow(especially a longbow.. especially carbons) with a heavy arrowhead, or they will most likely break or bend(if made of metal)... and it can hurt.
Just be smart about shooting stuff. Then you will be fine

All kinds of mis information floating around on this thread. Carbons and aluminum arrows shoot real good out of glass bows and all wood bows.

And from a safety stand point, thanks, slackbunny, you are right.  Just make sure your shafts are good, personnally I don't shop for arrows at a hardware store if I am worrieing about one coming apart.

You have any idea how many carbons and alumniums I have broken or bent shooting them off of a #40 longbow (with a 3" brace height)? Actually is usually the nock, not the actual shaft. But it happens a lot. I suspect that I am damaging the shafts when they  glance off of branches  and roots and rocks, but not noticing the damage, then shooting them again.... and they break.
If you have a wide bow(more than 2" at the handle) and strong nocks on modern carbon or alumnium arrows THEY WILL bend or break from the extreme stress- I have 3 carbons with breaks right infront of the fletches. Modern arrows are designed to flex somewhat, but not nearly as much as a wooden arrow for a longbow. They are designed for a centershot compound or modern recurve, not a longbow where the shaft must paradox around the grip. a compound has an almost shock acceleration, as the let-off almost shocks the arrow enough to bend it. carbon or alumnium shafts are much stiffer. For proof take a carbon shaft and put it in a spine tester... or alumnium... alumnium shafts don't take branch hits well.