What Is Primitive REALLY ?

[richardzane]

a historical Onondaga bow with a stiff handle
this one has kinda become my basic starting place design for most of my bows (but i'm still a beginner)

[Joec123able]

a historical Onondaga bow with a stiff handle
this one has kinda become my basic starting place design for most of my bows (but i'm still a beginner)

That looks like a sudberry bow

[TatankaOhitika]

Greg - half cup pine pitch and half cup rendered deer fat makes a nice sealent that lasts 3 times longer than oil or anything of that nature . Used it a few times but it's more effort than it's worth .

And im talking about cultures that had never come into contact with the modern world . Absolutley zero metal tools . If you can fashion metal from natural material . That is primitive . Because you had absolutley ZERO aid from the modern world . All you have is your beating heart , skin , and the natural landscape around you . But like I said I would consider a steel knife and modern clothing primitive survival . But it's definatley far from the simplest way , and definatley not starting from scratch .

The bottom line is if I was stuck in the woods for months without nothing , im making a fully bending bow with stone tools .

[Hrothgar]

I suppose technically primitive would infer first or prime, but in fairness to what we generally regard as primitive archery there is a fairly wide spectrum. Primitive doesn't necessarily mean native American, so a primitive weapon doesn't necessarily have to be a bend in the handle bow. Some of the ancient Turkish, Hungarian or Mongolian recurves were complex laminated bows, as were the Japanese Yumi. And although I'm a long way from reaching their advanced weaponry even though I have at my disposal power tools, laboratory-created glues, and man-made materials, I consider what I'm building and what I'm trying to replicate are primitive bows. Just curious, what about the Meare-Heath bow and perhaps some of the other early European/Scandinavian bows, did they bend in the handle?

[twisted hickory]

Greg - half cup pine pitch and half cup rendered deer fat makes a nice sealent that lasts 3 times longer than oil or anything of that nature . Used it a few times but it's more effort than it's worth .

And I'm talking about cultures that had never come into contact with the modern world . Absolutely zero metal tools . If you can fashion metal from natural material . That is primitive . Because you had absolutely ZERO aid from the modern world . All you have is your beating heart , skin , and the natural landscape around you . But like I said I would consider a steel knife and modern clothing primitive survival . But it's definitely far from the simplest way , and definitely not starting from scratch .

The bottom line is if I was stuck in the woods for months without nothing , I'm making a fully bending bow with stone tools .

Good point TatankaOhitika,
I have thought about trying it with copper hand  made tools or even stone/bone. That will be a good project for when I am retired.
The cool thing about people like your self and many others on this forum is if we had to we could create from a minimum of materials a functional bow from whatever we could find for wood and stone/steel hand tools. I like to make my own things because I get some sense of satisfaction from creating something from my own hands like your and my ancestors. Not to metion if made well will shoot right along side of modern long/re curve bows.
Thanks for the tip on a homemade varnish.
Greg

[Granite Mtn]

This really takes me back to when this site got its start!  This could go for a while???! I love pontification it makes me smile!  I have an opinion but don't we all!

[Traxx]

LOL!!!!
Granite Mtn,
I remember all those threads too.We had em,on other sites as well.

[TRACY]

Deja vu . The question is open ended and a catch 22 so to speak. Make wooden bows with a method you are comfortable with no matter the tools and enjoy shooting them- this is my belief.


Tracy

[Weylin]

The EWB guys argue about the Mary Rose and Agincourt and this is what we argue about. 

I agree with Tracy. I think it's cool that different people do things in different ways. Stone bows are cool, hell even custom fiberglass bows are cool sometimes, just not my cup o' tea. There are trade offs in any direction you take it and in the end it comes down to what you want to get out of it and what appeals to you. I think the basic parameters that PA sets for its forum do a good job of keeping us all talking about relatively the same thing, aside from that I try not to get too worked up about it.

[Gordon]

Well, the bows that we make are "primitive" compared to what passes for archery gear now a days.

[bow101]

The middle ages or medieval era lasted from the 5th to the 15th century.  And many many bows on here are built that look like some of the bows that were built during that time.  The 5th century had to be quite primitive,  "Seriously"
Ya I know we use store bought glue, dacron string etc.....etc.....but for the most part the bows are wood and some backed with natural materials.  I personally don't care to get into Sinew or RAwhide backing or natural strings.  I'll stick with the store stuff....   Later on down the road I'll try out stone tip arrows and flintnapping.

[Newindian]

Why would metal disqualify something as primitive, our ancestors had metal

[Del the cat]

I think you are presumtious to say no primititve bows had stiff handles.
If a neolithic bowyer found a gorgeous stave that just happened to have a big gnarly knot in the middle he'd have left it stiff.
I think it's patronising to think that 'primitive' man had neither the artistry, imagination, curiousity or humour to make odd character bows.
I'm not saying he did, but curiosity and humour are surely two on mans enduring and endearing traits.
Now who's going to help me down off this high horse?
Del

I'd rather just cut the cinch and let gravity do what it does best!

My best guess, based on all the stone-age bows I have seen, and seen photos of, is that those bowyers ALWAYS used the best wood they could get and NEVER  went looking for "snakey" or "character" staves. Their purpose was to to get food or protect lives. I think it is only we "civilized" folks who have the luxury of time to show our skills in the use of wood that the iceman would have not given a  second look.

As for a definition  of primitive, I think no use of steel serves well.  I don't make primitive bows. I make natural material bows.

Lot of guys doing that today in Clarksville!

Jim Davis

C'mon Dude...  how many stane age bows are there in existence? maybe a handfull. How many have been made over the millenia? Millions.
So the one's you've seen are hardly a statistical sample.
They certainly decorated bows, blimey the native Americans even cut bonkers scallops out down the side so I don't think there is any argument against experimentation.
Some of this gotta do it exactly how they did it is bonkers.
Do you think at the start of the stone there was some stone age guy looking down at the guys using flint because it was a new fangled tool?
Man will use the best tool available to him, improvisation and necessity is the the mother of invention.
Nah, me? I'm going to swing about in the trees and eat fruit... none of this new fangled walkin' upright for me.
Del

[Del the cat]

Maybe the best test of 'is it primitive' would be to imagine it handed to Mr Ugg our stone age tester.
If he knew what it was and could use it then it's primitive
When we tried this test with a compound, he gave it to Mrs Ugg and she hung the washing on it to dry   
Del

[Joec123able]

Why would metal disqualify something as primitive, our ancestors had metal

Exactly, metal tools have been around for aloooong time.