Ash "holmegård" (pics)

[Kviljo]

Just finished a new potential flightbow. It's 2,5" wide at the fades, and feels like it is about 70# at 28". 74" ntn. It had some natural stringfollow, and it has followed the string 3" by now. I shot it at the local range tonight, and it seems to be quite fast in spite of the stringfollow. Hoping to get rid of some of the stringfollow with some dry heat.

The handle has a small knot at it's center, and it is deflexed there, plus the upper limb is deflexed a little right at the midlimb fade. Most of the tillering was done watching how the growthrings faded out from the fades. Really hard to tell how it is bending when the bending area is so small.

[a finnish native]

pics dont show for me

[Kviljo]

Now they probably do

[venisonburger]

Thats a great looking bow, I've never tried that style, what is the advantage of the holmgard style?
VB

[CHUCKER]

Very nice workmanship! I do not think I would worry too much about the string follow now, might cause more problems trying to remove it. The handle is real neat! how does it feel in your hand?

[D. Tiller]

Well, I think I see the reason it took the set. Looks like there may be too much outer limb and not enough inner limb. Hope that helps!

[Justin Snyder]

That is a wicked looking bow.  How does it shoot with all that non working wood on the tips. 
Greg, this is a REAL holmegard, not a Tennessee holmegard.  Justin

[Kviljo]

Thanks folks

That's probably half-way correct D.T.. There is enough wood for the job, but this design translates normally stressed wood into a lot of stringfollow, since all the stringfollow will be close to the handle. Bad for cast, but this design is pretty effective so it's cast isn't too bad, plus low string tension at brace is good for accuracy. But I hope some heat treatment will take care of some of the stringfollow at least.

[adb]

Hi,
I do believe it's spelled "Holmegaard", after the town and region in Denmark where the original artifact was discovered.
I have made many Holmegaard tillered bows, and consider it my speciality. I have made many self Holmies from maple, osage, and elm.  I just finished one for a customer which was hickory backed maple, 46# @ 27", 66" NTN. The advantage of this tillering style, with the non-bending , narrowed outer tips, is reduced string angle at full draw. The stiff outer limbs act as levers, increasing cast. If tillered correctly, string follow, or what I generally call "set", is no worse than any other bow. With Holmies, you can make a shorter bow with less string angle, and reduced finger pinch at full draw. I think with your bow, you've made the bending portion of each limb too short. I usually don't make the outer non-bending limb more than 12", regardless of the bow's OAL. Holmies traditionally have pin nocks as well, to keep the tips as light as possible. I also try to keep the bending limb 2" wide, and the same width for its entire length. You also want to keep the bending limb portion the same thickness for its length, as well. If I can figure out how to send pics, I will send some of the Holmies I have made.

[Kviljo]

Justin, it seems to shoot quite well. I tried some 75g  1/2" ash shafts with it, and they didn't seem too slow.
I would call it a conventionalized holmegård, begause (probably) none of the originals was this extreme.

Yep adb, it's called Holmegård, or Holmegaard for those who havent got the Å on their keyboard
But it is not correct that a bow with limbs that is 2" wide from the fades to the transition at midlimb should have the same thickness along the whole 2" wide area. Such a bow would stress the wood too much near the grip. They should either have a taper in thickness, or in width.

[adb]

kvilgo,
Sorry, I disagree. If you tiller as suggested, you do not end up with a proper Holmegaard tiller. The tiller ends up, as your's, with more or less a conventional elliptical tiller. This defeats the whole purpose of this type of bow. If you look at the pics of your bow at full draw, it's basically an even bend from fade to tip. This is not correct. When tillering, ignore the stiff non-bending outer limbs, and tiller looking at the bending portions only. The tiller on the bending limbs should be an even arc, much like a horsebow. You should end up with 3 distinct portions of the bow: 1. a stiff, short (4 to 5") nonbending handle, 2. even width and thickness bending limbs, and 3. no more than 10 to 12" non-bending outer limbs. Do a subject search for Holmegaard bow on this message board sight, and look for an excellent article written by Dennis La Varenne entitled: "Tillering the Holmegaard Bow." It's very comprehensive. There has been some controversey regarding the construction of this type of bow in the Trad Bowyers Bibles, and in Vol 2, it was suggested these bows were made "backwards." This turned out to be incorrect, and was revised in Vol 3. These bows are a little tricky to get right, but when you do, pound for pound, they shoot smooth and sweet, with excellent cast. Remember, to keep all the advantages of a Holmie... keep it short. <68", to take advantage of this style of tiller. Your bow, at 74", is defeating the purpose. Just because it's a Holmegaard shape, doesn't make it a Holmegaard tiller.

[Kviljo]

One question: If you take a regular board and bend it, where and how does it bend?

Yep, it progressively bends more towards the center. The same thing applies to a holmegård that has a bending portion with uniform thickness and width. Too much stress on the wood near the grip. To stress the limbs equally, you need to give it a taper either in width or in thickness. Ask any of the experts, and you get this answer. You could even try it in Alan Cases program "Supertiller".

Other than that, we agree. The outer limbs should only bend a little, just to make sure they are as light as possible. At least that is true for some of the holmegårds. There are a lot of variations in the approx 20 originals, from close to pyramid-shape, to the ones that have a clear separation between the inner and outer limbs.

[Kviljo]

See this illustration:

http://p081.ezboard.com/fpaleoplanet69529frm13.showMessage?topicID=6870.topic

This bow should have an even thickness along its bending inner limbs. That way, they will get a circular tiller and be evenly stressed.

[D. Tiller]

Hmmm! There was a guy on here a while back that had a great article on tillering a Holmy bow.  Do a search on  the design and you should find it. Great article that will explain it all.

[adb]

Yes, as I've already mentioned in previous post: the article is by Dennis La Verenne, entitled: "Tillering the Holmegaard Bow." Do a search on this sight, and you'll find it. It's under ozbow.com.....

kviljo... the outer limbs should not bend at all!!! Otherwise it's not a Holmegaard tiller, it's just a Holmegaard shape!!! The pic of the tiller on the bow you posted is circular, not Holmegaard.

Also, I thought there was only 1 Holmegaard artifact? 20? Can you shed some light on the basis of this statement? I'd be very interested, considering Holmies are my passion. Thanks.