Put ebony nocks on Rudders' warbow, had to shorten a bit, chrysaling???!

[nineworlds9]

Ok, so I haven't had the time to make a bow yet, busy as I am, but I have learned a lot from reading TBB vol. 1-3 already.  Took on a small project for fun-  installing some proper looking nocks on my Rudderbows 90/100@33 hickory tri-lam warbow.  The bow originally came with very plain/boring double self-nocks for use with a stringer.  I recently happened upon a very nice pair of ebony wood roughed out nocks for the low price of $6 and said WTH why not and it'll make the bow look right.  Got the nocks in the mail and they were shaped halfway decent and had just a sharp cut straight 'generic' nock groove cut in them, obviously they needed fit and finish. 

Ok...so original bow specs approx. 76" overall, 90/100#@33".  I knew I'd probably have to cut off the tips of the bow because the tips would be too slender to fit inside the pre-drilled sockets in the new nocks.  I was right so I dove in.  Initially I cut off as little as possible, just cutting off the portion on each tip with the double self nock grooves. 

This removed 1 3/16" from the top limb tip and 1 5/16" from the bottom limb tip...initially.

Fitting the new top nock went very well and no further wood was removed.

Fitting the new bottom nock went a little awry because the bottom limb is naturally a bit thicker than the top and the bottom nock socket was a large is it was gonna get and I ended up taking off an additional bit of wood getting my desired taper, making a new total of 2 1/16" removed from the bottom limb length...that's an additional 7/8" of wood over what was removed from the top.

3 1/4" total removed from the bow.  New bow length without new nocks 72 3/4".

With new nocks fitted NTN length now 72" exactly.

Edit:  grip is 5" of total length
         Top limb from edge of grip to nock groove: 36"
         Bottom limb from edge of grip to nock groove:  31"
         
I think I need to move the grip ...that is unless the bow is spliced.

Got em epoxied on with 1 minute epoxy.  Let cure overnight, then proceeded to fit string to nock grooves and adjust as necessary.  Initially the sharp 'generic' grooves where at the wrong angle and too narrow, so with some file/carving work I got them just right and the string rides beautifully now.

Finished shaping the nocks to desired look and got everything clean and coated with 3 coats of hard satin lacquer.  Beautiful!  Let dry overnight and today proceeded to brace up again and do some shooting.

Wellllll...

Braced bow.  Drew back a few times...YUP, I gained some draw weight!  5# at least.  Maybe more.  Shot a few arrows at a 10 yd target.  Seemed to shoot same as before, but a bit faster I think.

Had wife take a pic of me at full draw (behind the ear).  Hmm.  Top limb bending more than bottom, to be expected..?  Overall doesn't look too bad.

Well after shooting a few times I did notice something on the bottom limb that has me WORRIED.  "Chrysals"??!!!!  I was praying it wouldn't need re-tillering after doing the nock work, knowing I had removed 7/8" more length from the bottom vs. the top limb. 

I'm just not sure if the marks I'm seeing are genuine chrysals or just 'finish' chrysals in the varnish that is on the bow.  Study the pics and tell me what you think.  I used paint shop to mark the end points.  They appear superficial to me, very faint and I wiped some dust over a few in one of the pics to highlight them some more.  Rats.  I really hope I don't need re-tillering,  the bow is so pretty now, but oh well...    Opinions?














ALSO MADE A VIDEO OF THE DRAW:

http://youtu.be/X6L8Z4OhwwM

****Edit:  going to take new pics and new video now that I've wished up and moved the grip further up.  Duh.  Also, sandpaper revealed those 'chrysals' may have just been in the finish on the bow...once I got through the finish I couldn't see anything.  Pulled the bow back to 33" a few times and they didnt appear to come back.  Perhaps a warning?? We'll see.  With the new 72" length I'm not gonna draw past 31". 

[nineworlds9]

I know I also run the risk of increased set, but so far after two brace/unbrace shooting sessions it is the same as it was when the length was 3.25" longer.  Hmm.  This chrysaling thing has me worried!!  Just hope its in the finish and not the wood.

[Del the cat]

Pure madness !
Sorry to be so blunt, and I expect you've worked it out for yourself.

You should have made horn nocks to fit the slender tips rather than cutting down the tips to fit those grossly oversized ones.
What are those damn nocks made for? The top of fence posts?

I posted a nice 2 part 'how to do horn nocks' on my blog.
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/horn-nock-instructional-part-1.html

Generally you are better off trying to do a whole job yourself if possible. When in doubt... don't... or try it on a bit of scrap... or ask us on here first.
The bow looks too stiff in the outer thirds anyhow... but then chopping the tips off may well have messed up the tiller...I'd guess the bow is pretty much ruined.
My advice is start making some simple bows ASAP to get your skills and understanding on the way up the learning curve.

If you want sympathy, I'll ask mrs Cat for you.... Nah, no sypathy there either

On a kinder note, don't beat yourself up, I've already broke one this year and we learn from our mistakes.
Del

[nineworlds9]

LOL.  Del you're killin me.  You make a good point.  Thankfully I bought the bow used and paid a low price so not soo tragic.  I currently lack the tools to drill my own nocks.  Either way, impulsive and slightly misguided..perhaps .  The bows original tiller I think was suspect, perhaps I magnified the error. 

[nineworlds9]

Def need to get more tools and start a bow.  As for this one, ill shoot it until it blows up or I could try fixing the tiller.  I know the nocks looked chunky, honestly I kinda like em.  John Strunk said trial and error is the best teacher LOL.  Def will ask more questions next time.


Edit:  just braced and shot the bow again.  You know it still shoots very well, cast is great and I nailed a bull at 20 yds drawing behind my ear.  The 'chrysals' do go into the wood as I feared...a scrape with a pocket knife proved it.  Oh well, perhaps I need to give the bow a messed up name and shoot it until it breaks.  Bow hospital recommendations to avoid this?? Lol

[Joec123able]

What kind of wood I the belly made from ?

[nineworlds9]

What kind of wood I the belly made from ?

Hickory.  Bow is hickory/ipe/hickory.

[nineworlds9]

Did some measuring again, I may need to move the grip upward as long as its not a 'spliced' bow:

New length 72" NTN
Grip= 5" of total length
Top limb from edge of grip to nock groove= 36"
Bottom limb from edge of grip to nock groove= 31"

Edit:  I'm an idiot!  I should have measured and moved the grip in the first place!?  I mean here I am drawing the bow pushing way below center.  No wonder I'm having issues, nock hi jinks aside, LOL

[nineworlds9]

I also did some calculations...WTH was I doing pulling the 'new' bow @72" NTN to 33"!!  I think my useable draw has fallen to 31" max.  Combine me pulling the cut down bow to 33" and also like a bonehead leaving the grip in the original location when the top limb is 5" off, no wonder Im having fret/chrysal issues.  I took the original chincy vinyl grip wrap off, found the original center mark, remeasured and found the new true center mark was at least 3/4" higher meaning I could move my grip up a full inch.

[Joec123able]

Ok hmmmmmm it's a hickory ipe hickory bow I will tell you right now ipe would've made a much better wood for the belly you wouldn't have any chrysals hickory may be super strong under tension but it's not nearly as good in compression if I was to make that bow I would've used the ipe for the belly but

[nineworlds9]

Ok hmmmmmm it's a hickory ipe hickory bow I will tell you right now ipe would've made a much better wood for the belly you wouldn't have any chrysals hickory may be super strong under tension but it's not nearly as good in compression if I was to make that bow I would've used the ipe for the belly but

I agree.  I didn't make the bow originally..it's Rudderbows warbow.  I'm just busy modifying (mutilating?) it.  No worries, it was used and cheap.

[Joec123able]

Ohh yea I know you didn't make it I think rudder bows shoulda been alittle smarter on the wood choice either way good luck with the bow !

[nineworlds9]

Ok, so this is a 'shorter' bottom limb bow design for starters.  Did some more reading in TBB.  As I said, shortening the tips and having to take and additional 7/8" off the bottom limb moved the true center of the bow higher.

 I just got done moving the grip and marking a new arrow pass 1" higher than the new true center.  This leaves the bottom limb approx. 2" shorter than the top, which is in line with the original specs. 

I also changed my stringing method from step through bottom limb down to step through bottom limb up...I think I was putting more of a bend in the bottom limb each time I braces the bow and didnt balance it by bending the upper limb before the draw, this is all discussed in TBB. 

Anyway, I shot the bow again and it did very well...immediately after shooting a few times I noticed at brace height now having moved the grip and doing the new step through method that the bend in the limbs seems far more equal. 

I went one further and after my last shooting session unbraced the bow and took some sandpaper to those alleged 'chrysal' spots...well it seems they may have just been in the bows original finish??? 

Once I got through the finish and started hitting the wood I wasn't able to see them anymore...unless they're too fine to see? But I can't feel anything with a needle point?  Hmm.  Maybe it was a lucky warning?  I'm only drawing it to 31" from henceforth.  I will take some new pics and video showing draw with the new grip location.

[AH]

LOL.  Del you're killin me.  You make a good point.  Thankfully I bought the bow used and paid a low price so not soo tragic.  I currently lack the tools to drill my own nocks.  Either way, impulsive and slightly misguided..perhaps .  The bows original tiller I think was suspect, perhaps I magnified the error.

I have to kind of agree with that statement about the tiller...Every picture I see of a rudder war bow seems to be bending too much in the middle/handle area.

[nineworlds9]

LOL.  Del you're killin me.  You make a good point.  Thankfully I bought the bow used and paid a low price so not soo tragic.  I currently lack the tools to drill my own nocks.  Either way, impulsive and slightly misguided..perhaps .  The bows original tiller I think was suspect, perhaps I magnified the error.

I have to kind of agree with that statement about the tiller...Every picture I see of a rudder war bow seems to be bending too much in the middle/handle area.

Agreed, I studied the first vid I made and indeed it's too stiff at the ends.  At least at 33" draw.  Gonna stop pulling it that far now that its only 72".  31" max from now on.  New pics and vid soon.