A piece of twisted hickory that started straight? What do I do now?!

[twisted hickory]

Hey folks,
I need some advice. I started with a hickory stave cut out of a 23 inch log. I have made 4 bows out of it so far and all have had a little propeller twist so far but not enough to be a problem.....Except this one. It is a 66.5 ntn. When I cut it out it was a straight as can be with a slight propeller twist. Now that I have almost got it tillered to 55 @27 it has a heck of a propeller twist. When the bow is un strung it lays flat on its side on my flat table, When I string it one limb is about 1/2 inch higher than the other limb when holding the bow as if shooting it the string tracks almost half inch to the left side of the bow.  Is it wise when toasting the belly to straighten out the limbs or see how it shoots? The other bows havent been off this much. Will it shoot/tune okay? Its  not far from center shot as of right now but what does the bow do when I draw it? Will it shoot the arras right with the limb being twisted out of straight like they are? see attached pict. Any advice would be most appriciated
Thanks,
Greg

[mikekeswick]

Trying to bend the limbs sideways will not work.
The best way to solve this problem is to simply shape the handle so that the string runs down the center of it. I don't mean remove all the wood outside the handle.
Clamp the bow string up in a vice (strung), then reposistion it in the vice so that the string runs down the center of the handle. You will find that the handle is being clamped by 2 'edges' now. You need to 'reorientate' the sides of the handle to suit.
Trust me on this one! This method works perfectly. If you leave it as is then the bow will twist like crazy when you shoot it.
Don't worry about any propellor twist in the limbs themselves - it's no problem.

[Pappy]

It was probable not completely dry and will twist as it dries.I would put it on a form and heat it out and then heat the belly.We have a lot of Hickory that does that if only cut a year or so. We usually cut /split the log in about 2 buy 2 and let set in the hot box or a really dry place for a few weeks then narrow and thin down
some more and give another week or so.This will help to keep them from twisting as they dry,or if you have room get them to bow shape and clamp to something straight and put in a very dry place for a few weeks will also work. Done over 20 a few weeks back and hundred's over the years and used the heat straighting on most of them,worked out good.
   Pappy

[Eric Krewson]

I agree with Mark, as long as I own a heat gun, twist, dog leg, excessive deflex or reflex or any other bow limb anomalies are not a problem, at least not for long.

[twisted hickory]

Mike,
Do ya have a picture to show me what ya mean? The handle is only 1 1/4 wide so there is not much shaving I can do. I could get it pretty close if I took the handle down to 1 inch wide.

Pappy, this hunk of wood was setting in my mud room to floor tiller dimentions where RH is 30%. I thought this as well but is it possible to have it not be dry after 8 weeks of 30% rh?
Hopefully one of the ideas works that you guys mentioned....When I roughed out the bow it was as straight as the perverbial arrow When I strung it up with a long string with a short brace I was like
Eric,
Looks like I will be getting a heat gun at home depot today

Thanks for the input guys. I want to do a little work on the tips and back then finish tiller, shoot it some then put it o jig to get it straightened out.
Greg

[twisted hickory]

So when taking out the prop twist how much far past straight to I need to go?  It would be great if this works I hate to trash a piece of wood. (Not sure why I still have 4 more staves and an endless supply of hardwood here at my place.)
Thanks for the suggestions guys
Greg

[Pappy]

Hard to say ,but I will say it takes Hickory a long time to dry out once cut into bow size and much much longer in a log with the bark on,maybe years that way. If you taper is even on your limbs and even side to side I would say it wasn't dry. 
Not sure what Mike is talking about either,be interesting to see. :)I have built bows in the past with that much propeller in them and as long as the string will stay on it wasn't much of a problem but now I see no reason to leave it when it is so easy to take out with heat.JMO. 
   Pappy

[Pappy]

I was posting when you ask,not much past,maybe 10% as thin as that one is.I use a form and just put a tapered shim with the thin side to the part of the limb I want to move the most,the tighten the clamp,it will roll the limb in the direction I want just a little more.If you are doing it in a vice,first look at the limb and see where the propeller starts and heat there,then over twist a little and hold until it is cool to the touch.You can usually look down the limb and see where the main bend needs to be. 
     Pappy

[twisted hickory]

Cool Pappy,
That was what I planned to do the twist starts right where the limb begins to taper from 1.75 down to straight taper.
You guys rock.
I will post some picts when it's done...I am in nursing school and working so I won't be for a while as I can only work on it here and there. I hope to have it finished by sometime during spring gobbler season. I wood like to get a turkey with either this bow or another I made.
Thanks,
Greg

[Pappy]

Just give it a few days after you make the correction to rehydrate before you string her back up and it should be fine. 
   Pappy

[Del the cat]

You can also help it by adjusting the nocks to alter the stringline.
1 Stick a scrap of wood to the back of each tip the full width of the tip (this will eventually be replaced with an overlay.
2 On the nock nearest the camera. Fill the string groove on the left edge of the bow with epoxy and saw dust. This will move the string left
   On the nock furthest from the camera fill the string groove on the right edge of the bow with epoxy sawdust. This will move the string right.
3.  File a string groove into the scrap piece on the back of each tip.
3. Rasp away the Right edge of the tip nearest the camera and rasp away the Left edge of tip furthest from the camera until all the groove on the edge has gone, or the string line looks good (What is the purpose of a groove on the edge anyway???)

The string line should now be much better.

4 Do further adjustment until the string line is how you want it, remembering to exercise the bow to let it settle.
When you are happy, put on decent tip overlays or horn nocks. Make the tips as narrow as you dare with a nice deep overlay to take the load.
I use this procedure a fair bit on ELBs as they are V narrow and can try and go sideways on you.

You may find the real solution is a bit of all the proposed fixes, sometimes just a little bit of several tricks will fix it.
Del

[George Tsoukalas]

"When the bow is un strung it lays flat on its side on my flat table, When I string it one limb is about 1/2 inch higher than the other limb   when holding the bow as if shooting it the string tracks almost half inch to the left side of the bow."

That's the key to the problem, twisted. Straight when started and twisted when strung. It took me 5 or so years to realize while I was tillering I would favor the right side of the limb and then when tillering the other one I would favor the right side of the other limb resulting in a prop twist.

 So now I look at the limb and run my hand over it to check and make sure wood removal  is even. I bet you did the same thing. You have uneven wood removal causing the prop. It twists toward the weak side which is the side closest to the string when strung. So remove wood from the high side. You could heat gun but that will not fix the problem.

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html

There are plenty of buildalongs on my site.

This brief moment of lucidity was brought to you by 2 cups of coffee. Jawge

[twisted hickory]

Thats good about the coffee Jawge 
The limbs are within a 64th of an inch from side to side Jawge. I did that to my very first bow, i was able to fix it but almost lost the bow.
Last night I did shave a little off strong side of each limb a little to see if that would correct it and it did a little bit but I like to have the belly and back on the same plane or I am sure trouble will really start. I am gonna heat straighten it using my jig I built for puttin re flex into it and the milk jug trick you have on your site. I will toast it and let it set for 2 weeks then try it out.

I do want to thank all that has posted this info, as a young boy my grandfather would encourage me to study the old ways of making bows and arrows but due to a father who was busy providing for a family and the lack of resourses I kinda gave up and went with a wheel bow.....Look where I am at now due to guys and gals who willingly share this info. I just went outside and shot my self bow and red osier arrows for 20 minutes and was "killing" my target out to 45 yards. Who would have thought home made equipment was that accurate
Tomorrow I won't be able to hit the broad side of my barn at 20 yards
Gotta get my nursing papers and home work done. I will check in tonight after class.
Thanks again,
Greg

[George Tsoukalas]

twisted, good for you on going to nursing school. Use your judgement on the bow and let us know how it goes. Another recollection...this one brought to you by coffee #3. I once was the recipient of a beautiful yew stave (Jim from Oregon)...a great gift. Straight and perfect.  Yew doesn't grow on trees around here so it was a quite a git and I want to do it justice. I started working it. I used a gauge to make sure wood removal was even and it was dead even. I strung it and...it was a leaner way off the handle despite my efforts. So to fix it I had to remove wood from the high side. Wood is not a homogenous substance. The bowyer has to use more than just a heat gun to tiller it. Jawge

[George Tsoukalas]

One more thing and then  I will be quiet....Maybe....... Gotta go for a walk. If the stave starts straight, then I caused the twist and so I fix it by coaxing the wood removal as I've described. If it is a naturally twisted stave I may or may not fix it depending on its severity. Jawge