Have you had this happen before?

[missilemaster]

Hey guys,

                I am in the middle of finishing a buckthorn bow( 61" ntn, 50# @ 26", 1 1/4" fade to mid limb, heat tempered),  and I noticed this on the belly near  a hole.  At first I thought "oh great, a crysal" but as I looked at it closer I noticed some things about it. First, I dont think it is a hinge per-say, because I left extra wood around the knot. The rest of the bow's belly is nice and clear, nothing wrong. I noticed also that it followed the growth ring on the belly and didn"t wander off. Also, it doesn't appear that it is a pucker in the wood so much as it is a step, like one ring were sliding under the other, you can even feel it.
   I was just wondering if you guys had experienced this with any other wood? Would there be any way to patch it?  Thanks,

                      Cody

[bushboy]

Had something simular on a highly stressed bbo and it eventually fretted out right almost to the back.had I tried a belly lam when I first noticed it I might have been able to save it.now it's in the corner of shame!

[blackhawk]

Hmmm?  Red flag for me.....that last buckthorn I did had that same exact ring step at a quirky knot...and when it failed ,it failed at that knot and that island step ring popped cleanly off....not saying yours will do the same....but I did question whether that lil island ring step was faulty and not bonded well enough to the next ring up in the bow.....if you can feel that step id say its not bonded well to the next ring up,and id put a wrap around the whole island ring covering it up to err on the side of caution.

[TacticalFate]

Looks to me like a knot divot, a big one. I've only made two buckthorn bows, but on one of them I was whittling down the tips in the vicinity of a knot with a formation like that, and my knife caught the grain and it popped right out, leaving a nice bowl. From your pics it looks like you've only uncovered the top half. If you can remove it, that would be the best thing, but if not, I guess take blackhawk's advice.

[PatM]

Basically the same as glue creep except in this case it's the natural glue between layers.

[Pat B]

I'd say your bow doesn't like those two rings and is trying to get shed of them. Can you remove the remainder of that ring without causing a hinge?

[PEARL DRUMS]

I'd say your bow doesn't like those two rings and is trying to get shed of them. Can you remove the remainder of that ring without causing a hinge?

My thoughts as well. 

[Del the cat]

Hmmm, if you remove any wood it's bound to make it weaker, but if you plugged the hole and then took off the ring it might be ok... If you want to retain the look of the hole, maybe plug it with horn...
Maybe a daft idea, just tryin' to think outside the bow.
Del
Alternatively replace it with hole grown at high altitude, they are much tougher .
JW sent me some special holes last year, heck of a job getting them through customs

[JW_Halverson]

Alternatively replace it with hole grown at high altitude, they are much tougher .
JW sent me some special holes last year, heck of a job getting them through customs

When Customs opened they box the dummies thought it was empty! 

I just bought a dry oilwell in North Dakota and I am going to saw the sections of hole into 18" pieces and sell them as "pre-dug post holes", dollar each and I will cover shipping.

[lostarrow]

Sounds like a sweet deal to me JW. I hate diggin' post holes! . Judging by what you read in the papers, there's a growing number of people  in  your target market!  Btw misslemaster, I second ,third  whatever  the other guys said about your island wanting to pop off.It's trying to bend under that bit, and spit out the piece of wood.This will then give you a hinge where you will now have less wood.
  Might have to pop it off and fix the tiller . Lower weight , but still functional. Might only loose a couple of pounds if you're lucky. With your superior skills and intellect ,I'm sure you will pull it off just fine. Be sure to post the results .

[missilemaster]

Thanks for the info guys. I guess the lesson is, try not to have ring islands on the belly.

[Pat B]

  Not necessarily, Cody. I think your limb is bending up to where the ring lifted but is stiff behind that(left thick for the knot) causing the ring to seperate as the limb bent. Sort a hinge but the ring was preventing the hinge...til it poped.

[missilemaster]

I see, that makes sense Hopefully I will be able to fix her.

[mikekeswick]

  Not necessarily, Cody. I think your limb is bending up to where the ring lifted but is stiff behind that(left thick for the knot) causing the ring to seperate as the limb bent. Sort a hinge but the ring was preventing the hinge...til it poped.

+1

If I were you and wanted to keep the draw-weight I would use the same technique for patching a chrysal. Look on Dean Torges website for a great description of how and why it works. This bow is toast if you don't fix it.

[Buckeye Guy]

Cody
Looks like what we call a fischer .
They show up from time to time in boards that have not been bent so I don't think it is some thing you necessarily did !
I would try to remove and patch it in or maybe as Dell suggested ,it sounds good and would look better !
Have fun !
Guy