Bow Lenght

[adb]

I agree, with the development of armour and other protection it came to be more about the arrow and the only way to propel an effective heavy arrow was to increase draw weights.

 I personally dislike categorising the same style of bow into 'Warbows' or 'Longbows' based on wether they are more or less than 70lbs just because some societies have made that distinction.
I have made bows that range from 50-145lbs and they are all the same style, just some are thicker than others! They are all longbows and suitable for "war'.

Sorry, I respectfully disagree. A longbow is not the same as a war bow. Yes, they're both 'longbows', but vastly different. Different application, different tiller... an all together different purpose. A Ducati Panigale and a Vespa 50 cc scooter are both classed as motorcycles, but are vastly different. 

[adb]

To me, length is far less important in 'warbow' determination than draw weight and tiller shape.

[Ian.]

I am quite amazed to be honest how you can have such an uncritical eye, can you really seen no difference in an MR bow to a Victorian target bow?

[adb]

I am quite amazed to be honest how you can have such an uncritical eye, can you really seen no difference in an MR bow to a Victorian target bow?

+1!

[WillS]

I don't think he has said anywhere that a Victorian longbow is the same as a MR warbow.

He even stated in his last post that he's not talking about Victorian longbows.  Or have I jumped into a discussion having missed something? 

[bubby]

I love it when you warbow guys get in these "discusions" and everyone gets all huffy

[adb]

I could argue more, but I think it would be useless. Perhaps I'll just save my breath.

[fishfinder401]

I love it when you warbow guys get in these "discusions" and everyone gets all huffy

first time i read your post i thought you said fluffy

[Ian.]

I did write a long post but I'll just leave with this, your ideas are fallacy and you facts are about as water tight as the current state of the Mary Rose.

[Ian.]

Okay lets be serious. There are not and probably never will be a complete bow from the medieval period found in England, I do not know where the 5/6 come from. Yes a small fragment was found in Southampton but that's all! You have to understand its difficult for us to talk about something if out of nowhere you seem to think more bows survive than actually do.

Yes some Mary Rose bows will be shorter than others, yes some medieval archer undoubtedly drew less and so could get away with shorter bows.  Though the difference I concern myself with and I am sure adb for that matter is how different a Victorian target longbow is to a medieval bow, this is not a simple case of societies deciding their requirements and I can tell you I pay those definitions of longbows/warbows little time. Weight would be the obvious difference, application another but design and materials are also pretty unanimously different. 

I guess what I fundamentally disagree with is the oversimplification, "I have made bows that range from 50-145lbs and they are all the same style, just some are thicker than others! They are all longbows and suitable for "war'."

[WillS]

In my complete ignorance (I've only been properly interested in the history of archery for a very short time) I'd be interested in hearing a clarification of the problem with Stu saying that "they are all the same style, just some are thicker than others! They are all longbows and suitable for "war'."

I know the term "victorian longbow" has been used a bit in this thread, but it seems a bit like people are telling him that he's making victorian longbows instead of warbows, purely because of the weight.  From what I can tell, a victorian longbow has a stiffer handle section, a handle wrap or grip and various other tiller and construction differences to the bows found on the Mary Rose, that are more commonly described as "warbows."  If Stu has built a 145# longbow that comes full compass, bends in the handle, doesn't have a grip or bare any other resemblence to a victorian longbow,  I assume that's classed as a warbow?  Surely if he built an identical bow (bends in the handle etc) which comes off the tiller at 50#, that doesn't make it a victorian longbow, it makes it a lighter "warbow" and not suddenly a completely separate classification as it follows the same construction design as the heavier one.  A scaled down version, if you will?

Maybe I've missed something within this discussion - again, I'm only just starting on my "journey of discovery" with these incredible weapons, so by all means tell me I'm completely wrong if that's the case!

[adb]

Stuart... I'd love to see pictures of your 145# bow (longbow, warbow... whatever you feel comfy calling it).

[bow101]

Okay lets be serious. There are not and probably never will be a complete bow from the medieval period found in England, I do not know where the 5/6 come from. Yes a small fragment was found in Southampton but that's all! You have to understand its difficult for us to talk about something if out of nowhere you seem to think more bows survive than actually do.

How about across the water say in Belgian, Holland or even France after all the battles some of the enemy probably brought some back. I thought in the Book crooked stick had some original Longbows, or you talking about war bows..?

[Ian.]

I am talking about just military bows from the period - I know a few Dutch guys have been round various museums in their area and France I think and they found maybe one but it is unlikely to be medieval. They would have never been brought back from battles as they were seen as the weapon of the common man, you'd take a sword or piece of armour but even this was controlled.

[Peter-t123]

I agree, with the development of armour and other protection it came to be more about the arrow and the only way to propel an effective heavy arrow was to increase draw weights.

 I personally dislike categorising the same style of bow into 'Warbows' or 'Longbows' based on wether they are more or less than 70lbs just because some societies have made that distinction.
I have made bows that range from 50-145lbs and they are all the same style, just some are thicker than others! They are all longbows and suitable for "war'.

i would disagree that your 50lb bow is suitable for war