hackberry stave-too deflexed?

[richardzane]

got a question for any hackberry bowmakers,
i've been avoiding this stave.  a hackberry 58.5 " t to t , it naturally deflexed after splitting.   now two summers heat-treated in the barn rafters.

is this one possibly TOO deflexed? when i start shaving it down is going to curl back even more? it also has a little propellering.
what are your thoughts and suggestions?

[4est Trekker]

If the belly is facing up, that's a reflexed stave.  And, being less than 60" long, I would say that's WAY too much reflex.  Not only will it be tough to string and hard to align, it will just be too much strain on a short unbacked bow with a non-working handle bending that much.  Try heating it out and giving it a new profile on a caul. 

[Pat B]

I agree 100% with 4est. As you are reducing the reflex you can also take the twist out.

[Newindian]

I would say get the handle bending then you can keep more of the reflex

[richardzane]

thanks for the advice!
pardon the mix up, still learning to speak boweeze
(like when learning the Wyandot language.. had to first learn a whole other english language just of linguisteez)
guess i need to make a "caul"...      ok... I assume a caul in the slight curved wood form used normally to reflex a deflex with heat and clamps?   

maybe i'll put it on hold
and tackle this HB stave after the coffee tree one i'm workin on....aren't those natural "flipped tips" something?  ((see i'm learning!))

[blackhawk]

Me personally id reduce the handle down to make it a bend in the handle bow and deflex it thru the handle and fades to make a reflex-deflex profile bow and make it a bendy handled bow. But that's just me....others advice is fine too...just more than one way to skin a cat

[richardzane]

blackhawk,
so  wack off most the thicker handle area , heat and clamp down only on the handle area? till it straightens or DEflexes a bit?
makes sense....sounds doable. thanks!   

[blackhawk]

Yup..thin it down for a bend in the handle bow n deflex it there....as long as there are no knots in the handle area it'll work....id get the stave floor tillered first so you can have the handle as thin as possible and it'll be easier n safer to make that heat bend n correction.

[toomanyknots]

You could just splice in some non-working outer limbs, and then take advantage of the reflex in the stave. Although that is alot of reflex. Fear not! Hackberry will surely not keep half of it after tillering!  Unless you heat treat it.

[richardzane]

yeah i've sure learned about hackberry set.
i have a 50# that unstrung looks like its still strung. amazingly it still zings homegrown arrows great using a dogbane string.
this hackberry came from a 24" diameter windfall and produced the best staves i've found yet...no knots.

all right I'm going to sound stupid and need a little help with the term  "floor tillering"  as opposed to regular tillering .

[Weylin]

Floor tillering is what you do when the bow is first starting to bend. one hand holds the top tip, the other hand pushes on the handle and you force the bottom tip into the ground to slightly bend the limbs. You can look down and get a rough sense for how the limb is bending. After the floor tiller stage many people will use a long string which should just be long enough to get on the bow with out bending it, no longer. You can use the long string to tiller it to a low brace, 3-4" and then go from there. I hope that makes sense. It's easier to do than to describe. Here's a picture of Gordon floor tillering a hazlenut bow from his build along.

 

[bow101]

Floor tillering is what you do when the bow is first starting to bend. one hand holds the top tip, the other hand pushes on the handle and you force the bottom tip into the ground to slightly bend the limbs. You can look down and get a rough sense for how the limb is bending. After the floor tiller stage many people will use a long string which should just be long enough to get on the bow with out bending it, no longer. You can use the long string to tiller it to a low brace, 3-4" and then go from there. I hope that makes sense. It's easier to do than to describe. Here's a picture of Gordon floor tillering a hazlenut bow from his build along.




The more building I do, and Breaking.. I think that floor tillering tells me more than putting the darn thang on the Tiller Treee....         

 

[richardzane]

Weylin thanks!
guess i was doing something a little like that naturally just putting the tips on my shoe,
 before putting the first tiller string (stretchy nylon) on it.

 would you do the same floor pressure for recurves?

[gpw]

  Rich, lots of Hackberry around here ...   makes fine bows , but a rawhide  ( or fiber/ sinew) backing isn’t a bad idea ...  The tillering process will compensate for all that reflex, and as said , a lot of it will pull out ...   Hackberry likes being wide limbed  ~ 2”

[richardzane]

gpw,
yeah ythanks, lots of nice HB here on our property here in NE Ok., seems more reliable than the hickory thats growing here.
i've not done a backed bow yet...but in this case wouldn't sinew drying reflex it even further? just curious.

one of the limits i set for myself in this whole thing is using that which is growing nearby: deer, turkey, chert, wild rose, hazel, dogbane, etc...
If i can't walk out and get it, then i'm not learning about the provisions of the land around me.
doesn't mean i don't cheat occasionally. :-)   (especially! when it comes to tools)